Why would you order Dual Motor Performance? (cost breakdown)

[CommodoreAmiga]

Are we seriously comparing a Kia crossover mini van looking thing or a boring Volvo to a Rivian EV-Range Rover looking thing that can raise to 14.9" height and go in 3 feet of water. None of those points have anything to do with power.

Rivian is extremely capable and Kia / Volvo / Tesla look like baby toys beside the Rivian in looks and functionality and all around performance.

Drive through 3+ feet of water. Rock crawl a 100% grade. Traverse just about any terrain with 14.9 inches of ground clearance. Tow up to 7,700 lbs.

I think the Volvo is better looking. I am confident quality will be many times better with the Volvo, too.

But to address your 3+ feet water / rock crawling / ground clearance... 98% (or whatever high, almost everyone percentage) of buyers DO. NOT. CARE. These vehicles are primarily driven by normal people, on paved roads. Even the *overwhelming majority* of Jeeps are pavement princesses. And I would venture a guess that Jeep has an order of magnitude higher uptake of actual offroad buyers compared to Rivian.

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[MidnightRivian]

I think the Volvo is better looking. I am confident quality will be many times better with the Volvo, too.

But to address your 3+ feet water / rock crawling / ground clearance... 98% (or whatever high, almost everyone percentage) of buyers DO. NOT. CARE. These vehicles are primarily driven by normal people, on paved roads. Even the *overwhelming majority* of Jeeps are pavement princesses. And I would venture a guess that Jeep has an order of magnitude higher uptake of actual offroad buyers compared to Rivian.

That's why the $79,000 dual motor model exists for folks who DO NOT CARE.

The ones who are price conscious can go with $40,000 model 3 or Model Y for $47,000.

If all you require is an electric grocery getter, you have much much cheaper options.

If you want spend between $55,000 - $65,000, you can choose the full size Mercedes EQB.

Once you decide to cross into the $70's, you can look at Rivian R1S.

Rivian is a big boy and big girl vehicle. Not everyone can afford it and Rivian doesn't care to meet the needs of those price conscious buyers today. Those buyers can wait till 2025 and pick-up an R2 for $40,000 - $60,000.

 

[CrazyOne]

That's really my point. The base dual motor won't differentiate as much as it could against the Kia and Volvo. Rumor is the Kia will be noticeably cheaper, the Volvo is probably going to be similar to the Rivian.

There is a lot more to going off-road than power to wheels. Ground clearance, protection to pack, water wading ability, approach, departure and break over angles, etc.

Having said that, the most off-road driving most pickup drivers do is climbing the curb at the mall. I am one, for now.

 

[usofrob]

Also, there is no rock crawl mode with either of the dual motors.
The other vehicles also look good.
Will you take your dual motor off road without the specialized off road modes to find 3' of water?

My major points are that if you're wanting more capability, going for the $5k upgrade for dual motor to get more power and sport mode, isn't as much of an upgrade as an additional $3k for a lot more power and lots of off road modes to make use of the mechanical differences you mention. The dual motor Rivian is being made a lot less capable off road by Rivian than it could be.

Then, because the off road and sportiness that is inherent to the Rivian design is being nerfed, it makes it a lot more comparable to the others in this sector, thus reducing demand and advantage they could have easily had.

 

[MidnightRivian]

Also, there is no rock crawl mode with either of the dual motors.
The other vehicles also look good.
Will you take your dual motor off road without the specialized off road modes to find 3' of water?

My major points are that if you're wanting more capability, going for the $5k upgrade for dual motor to get more power and sport mode, isn't as much of an upgrade as an additional $3k for a lot more power and lots of off road modes to make use of the mechanical differences you mention. The dual motor Rivian is being made a lot less capable off road by Rivian than it could be.

Then, because the off road and sportiness that is inherent to the Rivian design is being nerfed, it makes it a lot more comparable to the others in this sector, thus reducing demand and advantage they could have easily had.

I don't care what mode the vehicle comes with. I plan to take it everywhere It was designed for. I don't need no sticking button or mode to make my own path / adventure.

I would happily rock the dual motor IRS special for $79,000 and take it to more places than most folks with quad motors would.

 

[usofrob]

it just seems like Rivian is trying to keep their Quad motor the halo vehicle. I've continued to play with the numbers in my spreadsheet, and the one way that it could be valuable to choose the dual motor performance is if the range really is a lot better, or you don't want to have to manually select conserve mode.

 

[MidnightRivian]

it just seems like Rivian is trying to keep their Quad motor the halo vehicle. I've continued to play with the numbers in my spreadsheet, and the one way that it could be valuable to choose the dual motor performance is if the range really is a lot better, or you don't want to have to manually select conserve mode.

Do you want to be the richest person in the cemetery, the poorest person in the cemetery or the happiest person in the cemetery.

I am aiming for happiest person in the cemetery ever since a pandemic that came out of nowhere could knock you out of this life.

Get what makes you happy and stop trying to be a bean counter.

 

[usofrob]

Do you want to be the richest person in the cemetery, the poorest person in the cemetery or the happiest person in the cemetery.

I am aiming for happiest person in the cemetery ever since a pandemic that came out of nowhere could knock you out of this life.

Get what makes you happy and stop trying to be a bean counter.

I don't feel like you're responding to the content in my messages. It seems like you may be agreeing with me that the Performance isn't worth it, and you'd rather pay less and get the additional IRS discount. I haven't even brought that into play because I have a purchase agreement that will ensure I get the $7500. But for someone without that, it makes it almost silly to get anything but the base dual motor. One would really have to want those additional driving modes.

I am happy to be a bean counter. It keeps me busy and is a hobby of mine. I have spreadsheets for many things.

Also, while having good ground clearance is nice, having traction is also essential. Without lockers or a dedicated rock crawl mode, you probably won't be able to rock crawl. The people with quad motors have found that having the rock crawl mode is helpful for rock crawling. But maybe the automatic traction control in the dual motor will help to compensate. I'm really looking forward to Rivian actually doing dual motor deliveries to Kyle from OutOfSpec can get his hands on one and do these comparisons.

 

[MidnightRivian]

I don't feel like you're responding to the content in my messages. It seems like you may be agreeing with me that the Performance isn't worth it, and you'd rather pay less and get the additional IRS discount. I haven't even brought that into play because I have a purchase agreement that will ensure I get the $7500. But for someone without that, it makes it almost silly to get anything but the base dual motor. One would really have to want those additional driving modes.

I am happy to be a bean counter. It keeps me busy and is a hobby of mine. I have spreadsheets for many things.

Also, while having good ground clearance is nice, having traction is also essential. Without lockers or a dedicated rock crawl mode, you probably won't be able to rock crawl. The people with quad motors have found that having the rock crawl mode is helpful for rock crawling. But maybe the automatic traction control in the dual motor will help to compensate. I'm really looking forward to Rivian actually doing dual motor deliveries to Kyle from OutOfSpec can get his hands on one and do these comparisons.

Good, fast, cheap. Pick 2 out of 3.

You want cheap that is obvious and you want good that is given. So stick with the $79,000 R1S.

End of story for you.

For others who chose fast and good, they will go with Quad motor.

If you want fast and cheap, you can pick up a used R1T with 15,000 miles or more and some free pinstriping from going offroading.

Figure out your budget and needs, there is a vehicle for every bean counter.

 

[Ripped]

Clearly the bread and butter vehicle is going to be a dual motor R1S. And then the R2 (suv)

But it's not in production yet. So pretending I am Rivian, for a second, and I have only quad motor vehicle production, then I am most certainly going to under-promise on the dual motor versions. That way I keep selling quads.

Lots of people are driving their quads around in conserve mode right now. If it's possible, it may be something added in the future to the upcoming dual motor versions

From a financial standpoint why would I want to over-feature my upcoming vehicles at the expense of current sales? Especially when it's all software driven.

Yet if I could by a MaxPack quad-motor I would, even though I'd likely only use the other drive configurations 1%. There were/are some growing pains but at this point I view it as a proven vehicle.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

That's why the $79,000 dual motor model exists for folks who DO NOT CARE.

The ones who are price conscious can go with $40,000 model 3 or Model Y for $47,000.

If all you require is an electric grocery getter, you have much much cheaper options.

If you want spend between $55,000 - $65,000, you can choose the full size Mercedes EQB.

Once you decide to cross into the $70's, you can look at Rivian R1S.

Rivian is a big boy and big girl vehicle. Not everyone can afford it and Rivian doesn't care to meet the needs of those price conscious buyers today. Those buyers can wait till 2025 and pick-up an R2 for $40,000 - $60,000.

oh my there is just so much wrong with what you’re saying, you’re trolling. You must be.

 

[MidnightRivian]

oh my there is just so much wrong with what you’re saying, you’re trolling. You must be.

LMFAO. You add a ton of value early in the morning. lol

Next time you post, try to add some value instead of just increasing your post count.

Remember kids, quality over quantity.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

LMFAO. You add a ton of value early in the morning. lol

Next time you post, try to add some value instead of just increasing your post count.

Remember kids, quality over quantity.

Define irony, lol.

And my ignore list has grown by one. I think I will lose no value from this forum as a result.

 

[MidnightRivian]

Define irony, lol.

And my ignore list has grown by one. I think I will lose no value from this forum as a result.

likewise

 

[junkanoo]

Good, fast, cheap. Pick 2 out of 3.

You want cheap that is obvious and you want good that is given. So stick with the $79,000 R1S.

End of story for you.

For others who chose fast and good, they will go with Quad motor.

If you want fast and cheap, you can pick up a used R1T with 15,000 miles or more and some free pinstriping from going offroading.

Figure out your budget and needs, there is a vehicle for every bean counter.

You sound like a consultant ... or someone that has worked with consultants. However, it is a very effective way at looking at problems as in the trinity of quality/cost/time (as used in the business world) you can't deliver a significant project that delivers quality, costs little to implement and is done quickly. Something needs to go.

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