Who wants a simpler R1?

[Goose]

The Normal factory has a target capacity of 150k units per year, that's split between the three models currently being produced there. The R2 factory is going to have a target of 400k units per year. I don't think Rivian wants to sell lower end R1s, and they have no need to.

Fair point. I'm not saying a lower end, it would be the same R1, just without the gimmicky air suspension. This would also allow Rivian to get below the $80k cut-off for tax incentive which would broaden their market.

Look, I could afford an R1, hell, my boat that is being built right now is an Egret Moccasin 210 with a build price of $85K with how I have it optioned. But the high price, unknown reliability, current build quality issues (wind noise, panel fitment, etc), and low EV towing range have me wishing for a lower price point option.

I've got air suspension on my 2014 Grand Cherokee, never had an issue with it personally. It's got well over 100K miles and works perfect so I don't know why the Rivian would be any different

Same here w flawless air suspension. I've had Ram 1500 with air suspension for almost 10 years, 110K+ miles. I love the Cadilac ride, and wouldn't want to go backwards.

Ditto. That's what my R1S replaced and my experience with air ride in my JGC was part of the reason why.

I'm very glad you all have had great air suspension experience so far. I just know my buddy with the air ride Jeep GC had a complete collapse on the front passenger side during a camping trip. One of my other friends can't stand the ride on her Defender, especially when off-roading, says it feels like it's on its tip toes and has no articulation. My uncle's rear air suspension faulted and wouldn't balance the load when towing with his Ram.

*I forgot to add that looking at the home page on this forum shows several people have issues with their air suspension, that doesn't include the people that are not this forum.

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[Goose]

If Rivian wants to sell more R1s they need to be able to build more R1s because the demand is still far in excess of the supply. Adding different options and configurations will in no way increase the speed in which they can build the vehicles so it really doesn't make any sense at this point in time.

I'm not disagreeing with you that non-air suspension should be offered, I think it's a good idea to have more options.

You are absolutely correct, current demand has FAR exceeded supply. But the current demand is from wealthy, tech inclined, early adopters. What happens in a couple years when the wealthy people have moved on to Lucid, Porsche, MB, or some other brand?

The air suspension is very cool, but the vast majority of people do not need it, it's just another potential point of failure.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The air suspension is very cool, but the vast majority of people do not need it, it's just another potential point of failure.

If you want anecdotes, I've had to replace broken coil springs, sway bar end links, blown shocks, etc plenty of times in my life. The fact of the matter is if it moves in a vehicle, it's ultimately a wear part.

 

[av8or]

You are absolutely correct, current demand has FAR exceeded supply. But the current demand is from wealthy, tech inclined, early adopters. What happens in a couple years when the wealthy people have moved on to Lucid, Porsche, MB, or some other brand?

The air suspension is very cool, but the vast majority of people do not need it, it's just another potential point of failure.

Now that you’ve brought it up, it does seem odd that the ford lightning doesn’t have any trick suspension and its not priced much different than the Rivian when we’ll equipped.

Have you considered the Lightning?

 

[Goose]

If you want anecdotes, I've had to replace broken coil springs, sway bar end links, blown shocks, etc plenty of times in my life. The fact of the matter is if it moves in a vehicle, it's ultimately a wear part.

Touche'. I still think it's an over complicated system when reliable and proven solutions exist. Not to mention its an extra energy suck from the constantly running compressor.

Now that you’ve brought it up, it does seem odd that the ford lightning doesn’t have any trick suspension and its not priced much different than the Rivian when we’ll equipped.

Have you considered the Lightning?

I have, I'm not spending that much money on a Ford, especially when they're marked-up $10-20K by dealers. Plus, I like the size and styling of the Rivian more.

Based on the dialog from this morning it looks like I'm in the minority with this.

 

[frostbit3]

Touche'. I still think it's an over complicated system when reliable and proven solutions exist. Not to mention its an extra energy suck from the constantly running compressor.



I have, I'm not spending that much money on a Ford, especially when they're marked-up $10-20K by dealers. Plus, I like the size and styling of the Rivian more.

Based on the dialog from this morning it looks like I'm in the minority with this.

I'm not saying you're wrong in your concerns, it is a complicated suspension system but given that other manufactures having been using similar setups for many, many years now without massive recalls or otherwise high failure rates, I just don't see it a concern. If Rivian pioneered the suspension and it was a first of its kind sure, but right now I have no reason to believe it won't last well over 100K miles and beyond.

 

[Goose]

I'm not saying you're wrong in your concerns, it is a complicated suspension system but given that other manufactures having been using similar setups for many, many years now without massive recalls or otherwise high failure rates, I just don't see it a concern. If Rivian pioneered the suspension and it was a first of its kind sure, but right now I have no reason to believe it won't last well over 100K miles and beyond.

I get it. I just know I've heard complaints form Rivian owners about the leveling dynamics, sagging sides, constantly running compressors, etc. I know I would just leave the truck in all purpose and standard ride height 99% of the time.

My main point is this would be a very easy way for Rivian to get below the $80K price point for buyers to take advantage of the $7500 tax incentive.

 

[Deleted member 7086]

Reliability in the long run is very important to me because I keep my vehicles longer than the average consumer. I am deeply appreciative of those who have not had premature problems with their Rivian’s but my experience has been different starting after a mere 2000 miles, half shaft repairs, sensor failures, radio repairs, windows not operating, a/c vents and temperatures being erratic, the list goes on. While so far the repairs have been covered by Rivian’s warranty the nearest service center is a 2 1/2 hour drive away (in each direction), a huge inconvenience. I long for a reliable vehicle. By trying too hard to be cutting edge in all areas Rivian has built in way to many failure points which will be prohibitively expensive to repair once the vehicle is out of warranty. I agree totally - give me a simpler R1T.

 

[madgrey]

It's not an easy task to get any truck, with a reasonable payload, tongue weight, towing capacity, to ride like the R1T without going with an air suspension. Independent of having ride height choices, that's just a bonus. My RAM with air coils was one of the best riding vehicles around.

 

[SoCal Rob]

These are trucks, no need to be as low as a hyper car when on the road, plus the ride is just way too harsh at that low setting. Look at the F-150 Raptor with its electronically controlled dampers. It has one of the best on road and off road rides you can possibly have.

If you just do a a quick glance at recent threads on here you will see several people talking about their truck "sagging" to one side. This is a complaint of air suspension from several manufacturers.

I think you’re assuming that I want to be in the lowest setting, and I definitely don’t. I’m used to a Land Rover LR3 with 3 settings I can select but you can only drive above 25mph in one: standard height. The standard height setting gives great ride comfort and really impressive handling.

When needed, I can drop it to access height for people to get in and out more easily or I can go to off-road and do legit rock-crawling But neither of those heights are permitted above 25mph.

Ever watch Top Gear? Let’s say there was a mixed road race of 100 miles of freeway / mountain driving on imperfect (real-world) pavement followed by 10 miles of mixed washboard and rock-crawling. The goal is to deliver several dozen eggs placed it a basket in the cargo area of each vehicle with all of the eggs intact. The eggs are a stand-in for passenger comfort. If an R1 with air suspension was in that race with a Wrangler Rubicon and Grand Cherokee (both with fixed-height steel spring suspensions) then the first 100 miles on road the Rivian and Grand Cherokee would easily finish first because the ride and handling in the Wrangler Rubicon are the limiting factor. For the next stage, off-road, the Rivian can go into off-road height and beat the Grand Cherokee to the finish, if the JGC can make it over the rock-crawling obstacles to reach the finish line at all. At least that’s how it would work with our ancient Land Rover and I am confident the Rivian will do at least as well in the suspension area.

We ALWAYS want a comfortable ride PLUS really good handling on real-world imperfect roads AND we want to go rock crawling… so a height-adjustable suspension is the only way I’ve seen to do it.

 

[crashmtb]

Am I alone in wishing Rivian would release an R1 with coil springs? I have never owned a vehicle with air suspension but have several friends/family that have over the years, almost all of them have had a failure of some kind. I wish Rivian would slap on some coil springs/coilovers from Fox, Bilstein, Icon, OME, etc and sell it at a discount.

I can't imagine it would be that difficult to just remove the adjustable ride height and camp mode from the software for the more basic version of the truck.

the adaptive air suspension it has is what make it handle so well.

 

[racekarl]

I can't imagine it would be that difficult to just remove the adjustable ride height

The R1's suspension differences from a more traditional set up are much more than just air springs. It also has an electro-hydraulic anti-roll system instead of a physical anti-roll bar (this is the part that is conceptually similar to what's on McLaren road cars). I doubt that there is a simple way to just swap in steel springs given the surrounding complexity.

 

[Goose]

The R1's suspension differences from a more traditional set up are much more than just air springs. It also has an electro-hydraulic anti-roll system instead of a physical anti-roll bar (this is the part that is conceptually similar to what's on McLaren road cars). I doubt that there is a simple way to just swap in steel springs given the surrounding complexity.

You mean just like Toyota KDSS?

 

[MXA121]

Rivian is following the Tesla model. Expect the R2 platform to be traditional coil sprung to reduce cost. The R1 model is a high end vehicle with category leading suspension. I doubt there is any $ in it for them to make a simplified coil spring R1, even if it is more reliable than air.

 

[MXA121]

You mean just like Toyota KDSS?

It's not at all like KDSS, which still uses sway bars.

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