What’s your speculation on 2023 Rivian model

[SlaterGS]

No benefit to you (as the price isn't going down, nor are you getting "more"), only beneficiaries are the company and its investors.

I can understand the disappointment you mention with some of the “cheapening” but as someone who has purchased their product you are definitely a key beneficiary.

While it may not feel like it, Rivian making decisions that hopefully lead to their long term viability should be something you can on one hand grumble about and on the other hand affirm and hope that those decisions mean they will be there in the future and you don’t get left with a 7k lb paperweight.

We should definitely keep their feet to the fire and I’m all for voicing where we feel things are missed. As a future customer I sure as hell want to see them making smart business decisions as I get closer to receiving my R1S.

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[ironpig]

The Rivians will not be 2023 models until 2023. They will continue to update them along the way, but there will be no model changes based on year. Nothing "new for 2023" like legacy car companies.

 

[jebinc]

I can understand the disappointment you mention with some of the “cheapening” but as someone who has purchased their product you are definitely a key beneficiary.

While it may not feel like it, Rivian making decisions that hopefully lead to their long term viability should be something you can on one hand grumble about and on the other hand affirm and hope that those decisions mean they will be there in the future and you don’t get left with a 7k lb paperweight.

We should definitely keep their feet to the fire and I’m all for voicing where we feel things are missed. As a future customer I sure as hell want to see them making smart business decisions as I get closer to receiving my R1S.

I’m all for taking cost out and for them to be viable, long term - things like improved manufacturing processes, lean manufacturing, supply chain optimization, automation, cast parts vs sheet metal build up, etc. What I’m not a fan of is the quick and easy methods like just removing stuff promised or marketed when people placed their orders. An example, the R1S marketing material shows four tie downs in the rear. They are delivering with two. The spin is, “we removed them as most people won’t need four”. Other cheaping I’m not a fan of is substituting cheaper material and spinning it as not a cost reduction, but for some other “cause”. Example: Watch what happens with the ash wood dash and new “Vegan” alternative. I’m not going to speculate how this will play out, but it will likely not play out to future buyers benefit.

Telsa - How about this spin, “Your car has all the equipment needed for Full Self Driving” - circa 2012. “FSD coming soon, buy now as prices will be going up….” Reality, not what was marketed or sold. Early adopters of FSD have been left hanging. Even today, they sell a promise at $15,000, and what have they done since they never delivered? Well, they redefined FSD to something way less than the original Level 5 solution sold. These are facts. Don’t believe? People can do their on research.

 

[SeaGeo]

Re Rivian’s next steps, I hope they don’t follow Telsa or Sandy “FMC” Munro either, but they did hire a lot of Telsa people and the UI and wheel controls are nearly a direct port. So, I guess we will learn in time. Hopefully RJ stays true to his original mission and that Wall Street doesn’t oust him for doing so.

To an extent, I agree. There's a lot from Munro that bothers me with regards to not being to the benefit of the customer. However, I do hope that they fix some silly manufacturing/design decisions to simplify production, reduce weight, and make things like repairs easier. The most obvious and recent example I can think of is modifying the seats to use the same bolt cover.

The R1T should not weight more than a Lightning, and everyone really would benefit from trimming some weight where it's not needed.

 

[SeaGeo]

Example: Warchbwhat happens with the ash wood dash and new “Vegan” alternative. I’m not going to speculate how this will play out, but it will likely not play out in future buyer benefit.

I'll call it, they're going to start up-charging for the wood. Adventure will be the new explore, and wood will be an upgrade or standard in a new upgrade trim in... idk two years

 

[COdogman]

I heard the 2023 models will come with free rock sliders, apple CarPlay, 800v charging and can fly you to the nearest service center. Sorry 2022 buyers.

 

[Andystroh]

Folks let’s not pretend they need Munro to realize that removing a 12v or tie down point will reduce cost

 

[Bee]

Folks let’s not pretend they need Munro to realize that removing a 12v or tie down point will reduce cost

Decontenting is obvious, but I would not sell short the value of what consulting tear downs bring to the table. When making a car it's impossible for everyone to be aware of what everyone else is doing and how that translates to the assembly line. Having a third party do it has obvious advantages.

Frankly I don't even think Munro has sold out, they'll still bore you to death with shit that won't matter to the customer, ever, for minutes upon precious YouTube minutes.

For me with their Rivian tear downs it's only part of the story. I actually see an overall extremely positive teardown across the board with the R1T, to me the real judge will be what the next teardown of the R1T looks like.

If the next version looks like they're still in production hell and applying band aids everywhere, then there's a problem, if a single cast car pops out that needs a single person with a socket and one attachment + 30 minutes to assemble, well, then we'll know they're the best.

So yeah, for me the 2nd teardown is literally 50% of the story.

 

[DirtyJester]

Just got home from test driving the lightning.

the salesman was saying for the 23 version ford is discontinuing heated steering wheel and heated seats due to part shortages. Only the extended range models come with chargers (that’s even for 2022s). The spare is a different size tire too.

dealer markup they were asking 15000 extra. I mostly went cuz I never looked at one in person. Was not interested in paying the mark up but I thought what the hell and asked what they’d give for my kona.

the offer was $14000 cdn. Needless to say I laughed and walked out.

If people actually are willing to take these markups and get gouged on their trade ins then it’s no wonder the dealers do it.

 

[Zorg]

Back in 2017, I bought a used model S. The experience was over the top. Car was parked inside a delivery showroom on a carpet. A delivery person spent 90mns with me to show me how to use the car. My last Tesla was delivered in my driveway and that was it. I expect that the guide model will go away as soon as the R2 platform gets mass produced.

Enjoying it in the meantime.

 

[staytuned]

redefined FSD to something way less than the original Level 5 solution sold

Worse. If my 2020 Tesla functioned as well as it did -as delivered new, I wouldn’t have sold it last month.

New builds being decontented has always been the trade. We’ll get fancy options that disappear, and later buyers will get refinements and new (hardware) features.

I just want to see the the ownership story stay at a high bar. Let us inspect the vehicle to make sure it meets what we purchased. Give us good service (with loaners if needed). Don’t deactivate the hardware we paid for, lol.

 

[Bywaysmyways]

Such a deep “fact base”. I’ve owned three and speak from experience. And you? Don’t like what I’m saying, no worries - go check out any of the Telsa forums. I recommend TMC, as that’s the largest. Enjoy!

Loving the Rivian honeymoon period/experience, however.

Hey John, I responded for a couple of reasons. 1) posting negative sentiments so early in a post can derail any further content (no, I'm not a moderator, but apparently I like to play one in my spare time), and 2) you're forgetting to mention some of the improvements that came from Tesla (I've owned 2). For instance, they added laminated glass to the Model Y sometime during production, making the car much quieter, and 2) added wireless charging to the Model 3. I doubt either one of those was done to save costs.

 

[tosehee]

I hope they learned from all these service issues and incorprate the fixes into future..

 

[jebinc]

Hey John, I responded for a couple of reasons. 1) posting negative sentiments so early in a post can derail any further content (no, I'm not a moderator, but apparently I like to play one in my spare time), and 2) you're forgetting to mention some of the improvements that came from Tesla (I've owned 2). For instance, they added laminated glass to the Model Y sometime during production, making the car much quieter, and 2) added wireless charging to the Model 3. I doubt either one of those was done to save costs.

Thanks for the input. OTA updates are also benefits to Telsa and Rivian owners.

 

[crashmtb]

Folks let’s not pretend they need Munro to realize that removing a 12v or tie down point will reduce cost

let the people who don't know how consulting or manufacturing work keep thinking that one consulting firm is driving all design and mfg decisions. It's fun to watch.

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