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Vehicle Life Expectancy

mtw777

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I realize that this is purely speculative, but I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on what the average life expectancy will be for a Rivian.

I guess I look at this from a couple different angles:

- How long will the vehicle's electric drivetrain (especially the battery) last if it is well-maintained? I appreciate that battery degradation exists, but it seems to me (in my largely uninformed opinion) that this is less on an issue if you follow best charging practices. Nevertheless, how many years and/or miles would someone realistically expect to get out of an R1T with a large (135 kWh) pack? Obviously the number of real-world high-mileage EVs isn't enormous, but would these realistically do 200,000 miles without any major issues? 300,000? More? Less?

- From a more traditional reliability perspective, it seems like these vehicles have a LOT of kit that, while probably neat at first, is likely to cause issues over time. I'm referring to things like the power frunk... charge port door... retractable door handles... tonneau cover... HVAC vents... air suspension... Etc. I can't help but wonder how all of these things are going to hold up after a few years of using these trucks like they're designed to do.

Like I said, I know none of us have any idea how they'll actually hold up over time given that Rivian is a new company, but I'm wondering if they'll be more Toyota than Land Rover, or vice-versa...
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nukem384

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I realize that this is purely speculative, but I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on what the average life expectancy will be for a Rivian.

I guess I look at this from a couple different angles:

- How long will the vehicle's electric drivetrain (especially the battery) last if it is well-maintained? I appreciate that battery degradation exists, but it seems to me (in my largely uninformed opinion) that this is less on an issue if you follow best charging practices. Nevertheless, how many years and/or miles would someone realistically expect to get out of an R1T with a large (135 kWh) pack? Obviously the number of real-world high-mileage EVs isn't enormous, but would these realistically do 200,000 miles without any major issues? 300,000? More? Less?

- From a more traditional reliability perspective, it seems like these vehicles have a LOT of kit that, while probably neat at first, is likely to cause issues over time. I'm referring to things like the power frunk... charge port door... retractable door handles... tonneau cover... HVAC vents... air suspension... Etc. I can't help but wonder how all of these things are going to hold up after a few years of using these trucks like they're designed to do.

Like I said, I know none of us have any idea how they'll actually hold up over time given that Rivian is a new company, but I'm wondering if they'll be more Toyota than Land Rover, or vice-versa...
I would think they've studied Tesla pretty closely and the fact that many of their engineers are ex-Tesla anyway, I think the performance of the batteries will be fine. I fully expect the pack to last the life of the car, given you take care of it and charge it properly. Which really means just don't charge it over 90% on a daily basis. We'll have to see how Rivian recommends charging since their battery chemistry will be different than Tesla's. But if Tesla's old 2170 packs are rated for 250k miles, I don't see how Rivian's can't be at least that.

As for all the electronics and things, that will be determined. Again, I think it all depends how you treat your car. Since we know RJ is a perfectionist, I'm sure they've done rigorous tests on durability and punishing these parts. I know for me personally, I'm never off roading the car because that's not my thing. So my car should last a long time without many issues. One of the main draws of EVs is very little maintenance, and I intend to keep my car that way :).
 

crashmtb

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The limiting factor for vehicle life for those of us in western Canada is probably going to be ungulate-road interfaces.

And vehicles with Sask plates!
 

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GearsGrindn

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I realize that this is purely speculative, but I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on what the average life expectancy will be for a Rivian.

I guess I look at this from a couple different angles:

- How long will the vehicle's electric drivetrain (especially the battery) last if it is well-maintained? I appreciate that battery degradation exists, but it seems to me (in my largely uninformed opinion) that this is less on an issue if you follow best charging practices. Nevertheless, how many years and/or miles would someone realistically expect to get out of an R1T with a large (135 kWh) pack? Obviously the number of real-world high-mileage EVs isn't enormous, but would these realistically do 200,000 miles without any major issues? 300,000? More? Less?

- From a more traditional reliability perspective, it seems like these vehicles have a LOT of kit that, while probably neat at first, is likely to cause issues over time. I'm referring to things like the power frunk... charge port door... retractable door handles... tonneau cover... HVAC vents... air suspension... Etc. I can't help but wonder how all of these things are going to hold up after a few years of using these trucks like they're designed to do.

Like I said, I know none of us have any idea how they'll actually hold up over time given that Rivian is a new company, but I'm wondering if they'll be more Toyota than Land Rover, or vice-versa...
This is actually a doubled edged sword when it comes to reliability. All the items that would limit the life of a traditional ICE car are either not present or not heavily worked on an EV. No engine, no transmission. Regen braking limits friction brake use, etc. The reliability engineers will be salivating at the reduced parts counts. The flip side though is that other items will begin to wear out and that might be an even bigger headache to replace. For example, the turn signal stalk. How easy is it to replace? Are replacements available? Whats the labor to install? Seat repositioning switches and motors? Door handles? Windshield wiper arms and motors? Do I have to take apart a lot of other subsystems to gain access? How easy are all these sensors to replace? Parking sensors can be a PITA, so those will be something to watch.

How I plan to address this: lots of WD-40 and rustoleum under the body lol. I really want that motorized tonneau cover, but likely will go with the manual version. I haven't decided on a color yet, but I will likely pick something that is easy to color match and won't show scratches too much (though I LOVE Black).

Overall, R1T has strong potential to be a multigenerational truck. I love the storage options (i.e. they found a way to provide the coveted Ridgeline in-bed trunk), especially the frunk. The gear tunnel raises my eyebrow a little but I'm sure I'll figure out how best to use it. I'm willing to take the risk because I know they have strong, firm connections to Amazon and will be supplying electric step vans for them. Amazon and its delivery model aren't going anywhere. All this, and it will fit in a standard garage - I do not wish to spend near $100K on a vehicle only to have to park it outside.
 

DaveA

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I've always been a "keep a vehicle as long as you can if its been reliable" type car buyer...but in this new age, I'd be hesitant to keep a vehicle longer than its bumper to bumper warranty cuz everything is made with planned obsolescence. If everything was as reliable and lasted as long as my 1970s Oven, we'd never buy anything new otherwise.
 

dsudot77

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I have a different spin on this question, in that will a vehicle like this, that is much more dependent on technology hold its value in a used market as much as an ICE historically would?

Here is a hypothetical condition, a year after I buy an R1T ( i have one on order now), battery advancements means charging time is drastically reduced by say 200% (very possible, probable even but on a somewhat longer timeline). i think we would all agree technological advancements will happen on faster timeline with electric vehicles than ICE.

What does that advancement do for the demand of a vehicle with lets call it antiquated charging abilities or technology.

I think this technological advancement path will factor into Electic vehicles , much moreso than it did with technological advancements with ICE vehicles, will be interesting to see what it does the value of the used market.
 

crashmtb

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I've always been a "keep a vehicle as long as you can if its been reliable" type car buyer...but in this new age, I'd be hesitant to keep a vehicle longer than its bumper to bumper warranty cuz everything is made with planned obsolescence. If everything was as reliable and lasted as long as my 1970s Oven, we'd never buy anything new otherwise.
Planned obsolescence is just good design.

The reason things in the olden days were overbuilt is not because they were meant to last forever, it is because the engineering was not as precise.

No company only wants to sell you one of something, that's just how it's always been.
 

Trandall

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Well Car and Driver said this:
"Standard cars in this day and age are expected to keep running up to 200,000 miles, while cars with electric engines are expected to last for up to 300,000 miles."

My assumption is that loss of range at 300K miles will be around 30% I'm not sure if this is a rational assumption or not.
 

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MIG

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Well Car and Driver said this:
"Standard cars in this day and age are expected to keep running up to 200,000 miles, while cars with electric engines are expected to last for up to 300,000 miles."

My assumption is that loss of range at 300K miles will be around 30% I'm not sure if this is a rational assumption or not.
Rivian's warranty states 70% capacity to at least 8 years/175K miles. Assuming they know best, 300K is very optimistic.
 

Trandall

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Rivian's warranty states 70% capacity to at least 8 years/175K miles. Assuming they know best, 300K is very optimistic.
I'm assuming the failure and degradation curve for the batteries will have a somewhat typical bell shaped curve and that Rivian will not want to be replacing many of the packs at all so the 175K warranty is a safe number and the real longevity will be approximately double that.
Most ICE cars only come with a 60K warranty and I expect them to realistically last at least 3 times that.
Just explaining my thought process here I'm trying to figure this out as well this will be my first fully BEV.
 

MIG

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I'm assuming the failure and degradation curve for the batteries will have a somewhat typical bell shaped curve and that Rivian will not want to be replacing many of the packs at all so the 175K warranty is a safe number and the real longevity will be approximately double that.
Most ICE cars only come with a 60K warranty and I expect them to realistically last at least 3 times that.
Just explaining my thought process here I'm trying to figure this out as well this will be my first fully BEV.
Oh, I don't doubt that the vehicle will have a far longer life expectancy, just very doubtful that the loss of range on the original battery at 300K miles will only be 30%.

While not directly comparable I purchased a replacement battery pack for my 2005 Prius after about 12-1/2 years (120K miles). Bought a rebuilt unit for about $1350 with a three year warranty. The installer had just finished a replacement on a 2-year-old Prius with over 200K miles. It had been driven 24/7 as a private taxi. The decline on my battery was a very lopsided bell curve and while the taxi went well beyond the warrantied mileage it was in a very short time frame.
 

Speedrye

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I'm sure Rivian's engineers have based the warranty on expected abuse-level driving, so even those constantly charging to 100%, discharging to 4% and running multiple 0-60 runs regularly will reach that 70% threshold right around the end of the warranty. They know there will be some failures, but the average driver should have much more than the 70% by the time they hit 200k.

Of course, I could be completely wrong and these are the same engineers that claim 30,000-50,000-hr life-expectancy out of my home LED bulbs that don't outlast traditional incandescents in the real world...
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