UAW is coming after Rivian

[beyondgravity]

If Rivian's pay and benefits are competitive and they handle workplace incidents appropriately, I see no place for a union to come in "just because".

If they are (which I also think they do), what is wrong in unionizing. We should pay living wages, which we don’t; but I am not an expert. I am just getting anecdotal. So don’t roast me.

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[philofilm]

So much anti-union sentiment. Guess it was lost on many that as soon as UAW won significant wage increases for its members, other, non-union auto makers gave their workers a bump in pay. I guess many of you believe their largess would've occurred regardless.

And also note GM just goosed its stock price with buybacks and dividend increases. Clearly the union deal is not tanking the company. For their downsides, unions are critical parts of a healthy capitalist economy because exploiting labor is a built in feature.

 

[azbill]

Serious question: why do people hate auto unions so much? If the people in a union get paid more, then good for them.

Whereas, I don’t ever hear this much negativity towards unions in other fields, such as nursing, EMT, police, firefighters, teachers, pilots, NASA, local transportation and other government jobs, professional sports, etc.

My son is a teacher, he hates the teachers union and would rather not be a member. The teachers unions have started to get a lot of backlash nationwide.

 

[dadamb]

What can the UAW do? What do they bring to the table to negotiate with? Nothing. The only thing the can negotiate with is what Rivian offers the employee's already. I enjoyed the 2.5 years I worked at Rivian. It’s clean and I could pay my bills and save some money. The workers need to pay attention and do their homework before they vote yes or no. It wouldn’t hurt Rivian to just close the doors in Normal when the Georgia plant is up and running. I think for the area Rivian pays pretty well. Get greedy and see how fast Rivian moves.

 

[Technowizzard]

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/uaw-united-automobile-workers-organizing-campaign

I guess it was a matter of time before the UAW tried to unionize more automakers.

Hope they fail. I think the UAW is a key reason why the U.S. auto industry traditionally sucks. UAW made sense at a point in time, but not now.

The UAW is a bunch of thugs who serve no purpose except to muck things up. Every automaker that has taken them suffers in their bottom line for years thereafter. They have no place in the EV industry.

 

[Craigins]

Normal DEFINITELY needs Rivian and even in a very red state like Illinois, I don't see the politician standing by and letting anything develop that would cause Rivian to want to leave.

You mean blue state.

Sadly IL is very pro union. They would definitely side with the union over Rivian, that's where the politicians get all their money.

 

[oskeei]

You mean blue state.

Sadly IL is very pro union. They would definitely side with the union over Rivian, that's where the politicians get all their money.

You are right, blue not red. I'll have to follow the UAW story, not sure the politicians would completely stand with UAW if push came to shove.

Compared to Georgia's $1.47B, Illinois' $54M isn't as much, but that is a huge subsidy we (Illinois) have given them to come and stay in the state.

 

[Craigins]

You are right, blue not red. I'll have to follow the UAW story, not sure the politicians would completely stand with UAW if push came to shove.

Compared to Georgia's $1.47B, Illinois' $54M isn't as much, but that is a huge subsidy we (Illinois) have given them to come and stay in the state.

While nice in theory, it is $54M of taxpayer money, where unions will give politicians money directly. Why would they care about $53M when they personally can bring in $100+k from political contributions? They'd just spin it as a startup failure.

That's the sad state of Illinois sadly. Just look at the Comed trial for the latest example.

 

[ET Irrigation]

Tesla gives stock options to line workers. Early employees are millionaires. UAW conveniently leaves that out.

How has Tesla kept UAW out of their plants?

 

[HJP1]

Unions had their place a hundred years ago, today they can most certainty be a detriment. Take the teachers union in Chicago, they got one of their own elected mayor and he will negotiate the contract with them in 2024, how will that turn out for tax payers in an already highly taxed state? In fact the head of the Chicago teachers union who won't allow school choice for impoverished families sends her own kids to private schools. GM and Chrysler went belly-up during the financial crises of 08, not because of current wages but because of the legacy costs of thousands of retired workers and their families who were receiving huge pensions and health care benefits even years after the original worker passed, GM then had to be bailed out by tax payers and Chrysler sold to an Italian company. GM stock holders and bondholders basically lost everything. When unions strike when the economy is good and profits are decent such as the latest UAW strike they can get big concessions, GM even announced buybacks and a dividend increase. But if they are not sustainable when things go south the concessions need to be renegotiated or the company goes under (or saved by tax payers). In fact one of the issues of the UAW strike was the push by the Biden admin for EV's as the union believed it would lead to fewer jobs as EV's have less parts to manufacture. The irony of it that they celebrated Biden supporting them on the picket line. I can go on and on, sorry for the rant..........

 

[R1TS]

My son is a teacher, he hates the teachers union and would rather not be a member. The teachers unions have started to get a lot of backlash nationwide.

That’s strange. Not sure why a teacher would hate their union, unless the union is not helping to increase his salary.

Granted I live in CA, but even many of the elementary teachers in my district are making solid 6-figure pay. An elementary teacher. My kids’s former Kindergarten teacher makes as much as a Google engineer. And, the superintendent makes almost $500K. Yet, everywhere I look (not just in my county) during election season, people always vote in favor of higher taxes to raise funds for schools.

My friends and family surely benefit greatly from the unions in healthcare.

I have a hard time believing that everyone here against unions do not have a single close family or friend that works in a unionized job that has not benefited from the union negotiating higher pay. This is what unions are for, to negotiate higher pay. And, in almost all cases, they do
If the unions don’t get higher pay for the members, then the employees simply wouldn’t want to be in a union.

 

[oskeei]

That’s strange. Not sure why a teacher would hate their union, unless the union is not helping to increase his salary.

Not everyone gets satisfaction from $$$ or more benefits. I suspect a teacher or other union member might not like that a colleague does the bare minimum and uses the union as a crutch to do as little for the most. It's like a cancer and spreads.

There ARE good people who believe in earning what they are paid and satisfaction comes not just from money, but making a positive difference. My honest opinion, the unions make it harder to control the cancer.

 

[Zoidz]

These threads always bring up three main topics of misinformation:

1) Myth: If the c-suite salary spend was reduced, this would somehow provide workers with better wages.

Fact: The head of GM made $29M last year. Even if he worked for free, that would bump all 167,000 employees' salaries by a whopping, drumroll, 9 cents/hr. Even if you eliminated all the top execs' salaries at the company, workers would only get maybe a few extra bucks/hour.

2) Myth: the increase in salaries is going to cause car prices to rise dramatically.

Fact: labor accounts for 5% to 10% of a car's cost. The largest cost to build a car is the materials, followed by overhead. Even if workers made $100/hour, it wouldn't significantly move the needle on a car's sticker price.


3)Myth: Increases in build costs at The Big 3 automatically get passed on to the customer.

Fact: Not if they want to sell cars they don't. Cost increases often come from margin and do not entirely make their way to the sticker.

Regarding labor cost myths, it would significantly move the needle. Take a $50k car. Attribute 10% of that cost to labor, or $5,000. Ford is reported to be settling on a 25% increase in pay, and there are additional benefits beyond that. Thats' at least a $1250 increase in labor costs on a $50k vehicle. How is that not moving the needle???? It may not move it for you or me, but that's a significant increase for some people, which could easily drive them to another less costly brand. It absolutely moves the needle.

 

[R1TS]

Not everyone gets satisfaction from $$$ or more benefits. I suspect a teacher or other union member might not like that a colleague does the bare minimum and uses the union as a crutch to do as little for the most. It's like a cancer and spreads.

There ARE good people who believe in earning what they are paid and satisfaction comes not just from money, but making a positive difference. My honest opinion, the unions make it harder to control the cancer.

There's a crap ton of low-performing colleagues that dont get the boot in every non-union workplaces as well. Office politics. I bet you theres a lot in Rivian as well right now without a union.

 

[Big Dog Rivian]

If Rivian's pay and benefits are competitive and they handle workplace incidents appropriately, I see no place for a union to come in "just because".

Speaking as a retired Plant Manger in a corrugated box plant in California that the union came after 2 times, & we’re not successful, in a highly unionized industry, we instituted the following:
1. Treat all employees fairly & equally
2. Compensate a fair wage with fair increases
3. Set standards for production
4. Institute a point system attendance policy
5. Pay Supervisor’s overtime
6. Make the Plant Manger accessible, why pay union dues to access management
7. Make the benefits equitable & if Holidays are in question, that are like not spelled out in a union contract, let your employees know ahead of time that customer’s orders will not affect their holiday.
8. Tell the employees during a union drive, that if you change your mind after signing a union card, you will never get it back, even though the union “says” you will. Be sure you want a union.
9. Check the facts the union will lie to get in & take your money
10. Tell the truth (management)
11. Once 30% of workforce excluding salaried supervisors sign union cards the NLRB will dictate to management what needs to be done next.
12. Make Safety a priority( live and breathe safety, hold safety slogan contests annually with a prize to the winner. )

We were not as smart as Elon Musk, we didn’t institute a stock program until we won our last union drive. And even then it took 2 years for some employees to sign up. The maintenance employees signed up immediately & when they showed their pay stubs to the operating folks 2 years later, they signed up.

In addition we held attendance award luncheons twice a year for all 3 shifts, giving money for perfect attendance, as well as having management cook & serve for the employees. The plant manager came in all 3 shifts.

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