Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
652
Reaction score
1,261
Location
Park City, UT
First Name
Greg
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
Camp grounds are pretty good to charge at... but FYI the 30 amp outlet is 120 volt. The 50 amp in a campground is a Nema 15/40 which is 240. (Mainly used on big coaches and 5th wheels)... 30 amp plug in campgrounds is a TT-30 receptacle which is a 120 volt outlet for smaller travel trailers.

just don’t want people to be disappointed in a campground and plug into a 30 amp receptacle and not charge at the rate they are expecting.
They are completely different outlet types though. You can’t plug a NEMA 14-50 pluck into a TT-30. Apps such as PlugShare will indicate if it’s NEMA 14-50. Hopefully the Rivian head unit will as well





Advertisement

 

DaveA

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
80
Reaction score
128
Location
San Antonio, Texas
First Name
David
Vehicles
Acura TSX, Rav4, F-150
With a broad stroke, I agree with him. But a $20,000 generator at Napa rental due to rolling blackouts for the past two summers would disagree that CA has a handle on providing power currently or in the future. I think most states can react but some will struggle. And if you dig into his stats on the past, most of that growth came from coal which is now being shut down, switch to natural gas which is also being attacked, as are nuclear license not being extended. So really, all we have to do is increase capacity, increase safety of the power grid, install battery backups And change the source of how we are currently creating electricity.
With all the people leaving Cali, sounds like the situation will fix itself eventually. lol. I kid...
 

Grabs10

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Location
Idaho
Vehicles
Volvo T8 and f350
Great info! Thanks for straightening me out 👍
Also got very confused when I Googled "tt-30" haha
Your Welcome... I had to google tt-30 after you said you got confused... I can see why!

The multitude of different plugs and outlet configuration can get confusing. Heck even RVers that plug into 50 amp 15-40 outlets will swear up and down they are only plugging into a 120 outlet as that is the only voltage that the RV uses. Also there RV “mechanic” told them to never plug into a 240 volt outlet. 15-40 should be 120/240 volt receptacle. Wired any other way is dangerous.
It would be illegal to wire an outlet in any way other then designed
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
2,142
Reaction score
3,693
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps, 2500HD Duramax, R1S Preorder (Dec 2018)
With all the people leaving Cali, sounds like the situation will fix itself eventually. lol. I kid...
Well, we know where they're going...
 

Trandall

Well-Known Member
First Name
Travis
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
308
Reaction score
538
Location
Upstate NY
First Name
Travis
Vehicles
Subaru Ascent, Honda Accord hybrid
Occupation
Construction Management
You need to think a little less 2021. Induction charging is coming and future implementation is unimaginable by current standards. There are 150,000 or so publicly-accessible charging stations out there today and there will be millions added in the coming decade.
Wireless charging (using current or near term tech) would be an even larger challenge than installing L2 receptacles and would require even more energy as the losses are greater.
 

Trandall

Well-Known Member
First Name
Travis
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
308
Reaction score
538
Location
Upstate NY
First Name
Travis
Vehicles
Subaru Ascent, Honda Accord hybrid
Occupation
Construction Management
It's my favorite kind of problem, a future-me problem!
Past-me problems are my fav, first world problems are my second fav, Future-me problems are ok but I do hate current-me problems, they are the worst.
 

CommodoreAmiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
940
Reaction score
1,409
Location
USA
Vehicles
N/A
Past-me problems are my fav, first world problems are my second fav, Future-me problems are ok but I do hate current-me problems, they are the worst.
Isn't a first-world problem also a current-me problem?
 

Trandall

Well-Known Member
First Name
Travis
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
308
Reaction score
538
Location
Upstate NY
First Name
Travis
Vehicles
Subaru Ascent, Honda Accord hybrid
Occupation
Construction Management
Isn't a first-world problem also a current-me problem?
haha, maybe. I've been to 3rd world countries while serving in the military and I can tell you that my current-me problems pale in comparison. I will never forget how fortunate I am to be born where I was.
 

thrill

Well-Known Member
First Name
billy
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
309
Reaction score
512
Location
South Carolina
First Name
billy
Vehicles
i3s, z4m, hp4, (r1t)
Wireless charging (using current or near term tech) would be an even larger challenge than installing L2 receptacles and would require even more energy as the losses are greater.
Present day induction charging at EV power levels is over 90% efficient.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
1,153
Reaction score
1,881
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
Present day induction charging at EV power levels is over 90% efficient.
What efficiency are you quoting? Between the wall and the car? Or the wall to the battery itself?
I have a hard time believing that induction charging is more efficient than a wired connection. Plug to battery from a cabled EVSE is 90% (+/-2%).

If there is a 10% loss getting from the wall to the charger, that's not very good. The one person I know that installed a wireless charger in their garage commented that they got a heated garage as a bonus (winter) and penalty (summer).

Inductive charging is extremely sensitive to coil alignment and required small air gaps to achieve high efficiency levels. Just pulling into a parking spot with coils embedded in the ground is how people picture it working, but in reality the inductive device need to be elevated to be close to the coils in that car (and aligned very precisely). Since vehicles ground clearance varies, there would need to be a method for the coils to be raised (and you might as well automate the alignment while you are at it). Vehicle manufacturers would also need to put the pickup coils in a standardized location.
 

thrill

Well-Known Member
First Name
billy
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
309
Reaction score
512
Location
South Carolina
First Name
billy
Vehicles
i3s, z4m, hp4, (r1t)
What efficiency are you quoting? Between the wall and the car? Or the wall to the battery itself?
I have a hard time believing that induction charging is more efficient than a wired connection. Plug to battery from a cabled EVSE is 90% (+/-2%).

If there is a 10% loss getting from the wall to the charger, that's not very good. The one person I know that installed a wireless charger in their garage commented that they got a heated garage as a bonus (winter) and penalty (summer).

Inductive charging is extremely sensitive to coil alignment and required small air gaps to achieve high efficiency levels. Just pulling into a parking spot with coils embedded in the ground is how people picture it working, but in reality the inductive device need to be elevated to be close to the coils in that car (and aligned very precisely). Since vehicles ground clearance varies, there would need to be a method for the coils to be raised (and you might as well automate the alignment while you are at it). Vehicle manufacturers would also need to put the pickup coils in a standardized location.
ORNL demonstrates 120-kilowatt wireless charging for vehicles | ORNL

"The wireless system transfers 120 kilowatts of power with 97 percent efficiency, which is comparable to conventional, wired high-power fast chargers. In the laboratory demonstration, power was transferred across a six-inch air gap between two magnetic coils and charged a battery pack."
 

Trandall

Well-Known Member
First Name
Travis
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
308
Reaction score
538
Location
Upstate NY
First Name
Travis
Vehicles
Subaru Ascent, Honda Accord hybrid
Occupation
Construction Management
ORNL demonstrates 120-kilowatt wireless charging for vehicles | ORNL

"The wireless system transfers 120 kilowatts of power with 97 percent efficiency, which is comparable to conventional, wired high-power fast chargers. In the laboratory demonstration, power was transferred across a six-inch air gap between two magnetic coils and charged a battery pack."
It just doesn't pass the eye test for me. All other things being equal a hard wired connection is more efficient than wireless for all the reasons Ducrider mentioned.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
1,153
Reaction score
1,881
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
ORNL demonstrates 120-kilowatt wireless charging for vehicles | ORNL

"The wireless system transfers 120 kilowatts of power with 97 percent efficiency, which is comparable to conventional, wired high-power fast chargers. In the laboratory demonstration, power was transferred across a six-inch air gap between two magnetic coils and charged a battery pack."
Exactly my point. A 6" air gap in laboratory conditions. In addition to the small gap between the transmission/pickup coils, getting the very precise alignment required (possibly mm level) by pulling a vehicle into a parking spot is virtually impossible. Automated robotics would be required in the field to position/align the charger to the car. Possible? Yes. Practical? Unlikely. Getting all vehicle manufacturers on board to fit (mandated?) pickup coils in the same standardized location is enough of a hurdle in itself.
 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
641
Reaction score
678
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
GMC Sierra, Bolt, Sky
Occupation
Engineer
Exactly my point. A 6" air gap in laboratory conditions. In addition to the small gap between the transmission/pickup coils, getting the very precise alignment required (possibly mm level) by pulling a vehicle into a parking spot is virtually impossible. Automated robotics would be required in the field to position/align the charger to the car. Possible? Yes. Practical? Unlikely. Getting all vehicle manufacturers on board to fit (mandated?) pickup coils in the same standardized location is enough of a hurdle in itself.
I think I will get a law degree soon, because I am sure that all this power being emitted will cause cancer (in particular in CA where everything has been found to cause cancer) and then I can collect a big fee in a class action lawsuit.
 

MIG

Active Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
35
Location
Chicago
Vehicles
Prius
With a broad stroke, I agree with him. But a $20,000 generator at Napa rental due to rolling blackouts for the past two summers would disagree that CA has a handle on providing power currently or in the future. I think most states can react but some will struggle. And if you dig into his stats on the past, most of that growth came from coal which is now being shut down, switch to natural gas which is also being attacked, as are nuclear license not being extended. So really, all we have to do is increase capacity, increase safety of the power grid, install battery backups And change the source of how we are currently creating electricity.
If the realities of the environmental effects of coal-based generation didn't work effectively, the economies of alternate energy sources might:

https://energynews.us/2021/05/05/so...ess-over-coal-is-accelerating-analysis-shows/

When greener options prove to be even more cost-effective then growth is unbounded.
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top