Tesla to Recall More Than Two Million Vehicles Over Autopilot Safety Concerns

[endress14]

Interesting development. Software update to adjust steering behavior

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/tech/tesla-recall-autopilot/index.html

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[waitingonanr1s]

Not good. Will be rectified via OTA update. Doesn't say what the changes will be.


Look like autosteer is going to be limited in regards to where it can be engaged. Sounds like it's only going to be available on certain roads, similar to Rivian.

From the AP -

"The software update apparently will limit where Autosteer can be used.

“If the driver attempts to engage Autosteer when conditions are not met for engagement, the feature will alert the driver it is unavailable through visual and audible alerts, and Autosteer will not engage,” the recall documents said.""

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-au...oring-system-8060508627a34e6af889feca46eb3002

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...44baul32ckv&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

[COdogman]

Not good. Autopilot and “FSD” are a danger to the public.

This also came out a few weeks ago:

Tesla whistleblower calls cars with Autopilot “experiments in public roads”
Whistleblower speaks out after Tesla sued him over document leaks.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...s-with-autopilot-experiments-in-public-roads/

 

[runningdenver]

Although it always feels a bit misleading when these news outlets put the word 'recall' in the header. It's a software update that'll happen at home automatically. The car isn't being 'recalled' back to the dealer or shop.

Still, it seems a lot of drivers - tesla and others - think they can put on autopilot / or 'FSD', and then stop paying attention. Has no one watched Terminator ? We're just waiting for Skynet to become aware, and then these cars are going to crash and kill you on purpose !

 

[waitingonanr1s]

Although it always feels a bit misleading when these news outlets put the word 'recall' in the header. It's a software update that'll happen at home automatically. The car isn't being 'recalled' back to the dealer or shop.

Still, it seems a lot of drivers - tesla and others - think they can put on autopilot / or 'FSD', and then stop paying attention. Has no one watched Terminator ? We're just waiting for Skynet to become aware, and then these cars are going to crash and kill you on purpose !

Yeah, some of the YT videos are downright scary.

It's not the media labeling that. It's issued by NHTSA - and they term it a recall. Just because a recall can be resolved OTA doesn't mean it's not a recall.

 

[Riviot]

Not good. Autopilot and “FSD” are a danger to the public.

 

[Tahoe Man]

So isn't the two million practically all the Tesla vehicles?

I think the news is dramatizing this based on the two million number.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

So isn't the two million practically all the Tesla vehicles?

I think the news is dramatizing this based on the two million number.

Yes - see the NHTSA recall posted above 2,031,220. How is the press dramatizing this? They're reporting only what NHTSA did - they issued a recall of 2m+ vehicles. They're also reporting it can be repaired OTA.

This is news - Tesla put out a product that others have questioned its safety for years. NHTSA agreed and Tesla subsequently agreed to restrict the functionality.

 

[EVsinROC]

Yes - see the NHTSA recall posted above 2,031,220. How is the press dramatizing this? They're reporting only what NHTSA did - they issued a recall of 2m+ vehicles. They're also reporting it can be repaired OTA.

This is news - Tesla put out a product that others have questioned its safety for years. NHTSA agreed and Tesla subsequently agreed to restrict the functionality.

NHSTA has bug up their a$$ for Tesla. If AP/FSD so unsafe, please list # of people killed while using? Or, at minimum, accidents caused by AP/FSD? Headlines always that "AP/FSD MAY have be engaged" and in EVERY case, it has been driver error. Just FUD from competitors, incl big oil. As a Rivian and Tesla owner and Forums member on for both, it is amazing how much focus/hate on Tesla on these forums. Tesla forums, especially CT, rarely mention Rivian or, if do, usually as positive to EV pickup market. Just an observation

 

[waitingonanr1s]

NHSTA has bug up their a$$ for Tesla. If AP/FSD so unsafe, please list # of people killed while using? Or, at minimum, accidents caused by AP/FSD? Headlines always that "AP/FSD MAY have be engaged" and in EVERY case, it has been driver error. Just FUD from competitors, incl big oil. As a Rivian and Tesla owner and Forums member on for both, it is amazing how much focus/hate on Tesla on these forums. Tesla forums, especially CT, rarely mention Rivian or, if do, usually as positive to EV pickup market. Just an observation

Part of the bad press can be blamed on their CEO's inability to keep his mouth shut. At the end of the day he only hurts himself and alienates half of the political spectrum, incidentally the half that is more likely to buy EV's. Whatever happened to "if you don't have anything nice to say...". Regardless, it's a poor business plan.

It's been documented that they have a crashing into emergency vehicle problem, among others with FSD. NHTSA doesn't issue recalls without reviewing evidence.

 

[solaskaze]

NHSTA has bug up their a$$ for Tesla. If AP/FSD so unsafe, please list # of people killed while using? Or, at minimum, accidents caused by AP/FSD? Headlines always that "AP/FSD MAY have be engaged" and in EVERY case, it has been driver error. Just FUD from competitors, incl big oil. As a Rivian and Tesla owner and Forums member on for both, it is amazing how much focus/hate on Tesla on these forums. Tesla forums, especially CT, rarely mention Rivian or, if do, usually as positive to EV pickup market. Just an observation

Tesla is the only one touting full autopilot [Beta]. This boils down to a fundamental question: pretend their autopilot was much better than it is right now: is it OK for it to cause even a single accident (even in the hands of a bad driver), or does one gauge success by a decrease in overall accidents for Tesla cars over the competition? i.e. It matters not who is at fault per accident (a faulty Tesla driver vs. a faulty other party vs unavoidable), we care about overall improvement in [fatal] accidents, vs. we want the blame game: ensure tech. can never be at fault, even at the expense of overall higher accidents? I don't think NHSTA has a firm answer here, at least: I have never seen it. They should have that first.

 

[Zorg]

Nanny state continues to coddle it's citizens. It's a level 2 ADAS so regardless of what the car does, driver is is liable and should be in charge. So stupid.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Not good. Will be rectified via OTA update. Doesn't say what the changes will be.


Look like autosteer is going to be limited in regards to where it can be engaged. Sounds like it's only going to be available on certain roads, similar to Rivian.

From the AP -

"The software update apparently will limit where Autosteer can be used.

“If the driver attempts to engage Autosteer when conditions are not met for engagement, the feature will alert the driver it is unavailable through visual and audible alerts, and Autosteer will not engage,” the recall documents said.""

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-au...oring-system-8060508627a34e6af889feca46eb3002

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...44baul32ckv&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Looks like more nag. Which is stupid because the nagging isn't a failure of the self driving system as much as it is a way to keep drivers engaged, which is exactly what you are telling people you can do less of by having a self driving system. This isn't an improvement for anyone, and certainly not for safety on the underlying issue

 

[Tahoe Man]

Yes - see the NHTSA recall posted above 2,031,220. How is the press dramatizing this? They're reporting only what NHTSA did - they issued a recall of 2m+ vehicles. They're also reporting it can be repaired OTA.

This is news - Tesla put out a product that others have questioned its safety for years. NHTSA agreed and Tesla subsequently agreed to restrict the functionality.

Because it's just a software upgrade/downgrade whichever way you look at it. On top of that, it's all done without intervention. Also, in order to be at slight risk your have to engage autopilot and not follow proper procedure.

It's not like they need to replace some complex part that requires a complicated procedure.

This is really a non story expect for the 2M number.

 

[COdogman]

NHSTA has bug up their a$$ for Tesla. If AP/FSD so unsafe, please list # of people killed while using? Or, at minimum, accidents caused by AP/FSD? Headlines always that "AP/FSD MAY have be engaged" and in EVERY case, it has been driver error. Just FUD from competitors, incl big oil. As a Rivian and Tesla owner and Forums member on for both, it is amazing how much focus/hate on Tesla on these forums. Tesla forums, especially CT, rarely mention Rivian or, if do, usually as positive to EV pickup market. Just an observation

How many dead people are you ok with while Tesla tests its software on live humans?

If it's more than 1 then you also don't get it.

The primary defense of FSD is the tech utopian assumption that whatever its problems, it cannot possibly be worse than human drivers. Tesla has claimed that the FSD crash rate is one-fifth that of human drivers, and Musk has argued that it’s therefore morally obligatory to use it: “At the point of which you believe that adding autonomy reduces injury and death, I think you have a moral obligation to deploy it even though you’re going to get sued and blamed by a lot of people.”

Yet if Musk’s own data about the usage of FSD are at all accurate, this cannot possibly be true. Back in April, he claimed that there have been 150 million miles driven with FSD on an investor call, a reasonable figure given that would be just 375 miles for each of the 400,000 cars with the technology. Assuming that all these crashes involved FSD—a plausible guess given that FSD has been dramatically expanded over the last year, and two-thirds of the crashes in the data have happened during that time—that implies a fatal accident rate of 11.3 deaths per 100 million miles traveled. The overall fatal accident rate for auto travel, according to NHTSA, was 1.35 deaths per 100 million miles traveled in 2022.

In other words, Tesla’s FSD system is likely on the order of ten times more dangerous at driving than humans.

https://prospect.org/infrastructure...6-14-elon-musk-tesla-self-driving-bloodbath/#

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