So No Deliveries in 2020?

ajdelange

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Every EV manufacturer besides Tesla (including Rivian) is facing the same hurdle: a robust fast charging network.
Amen to that!

Most people will rarely (if ever) make a long road trip in their EV,
I strongly disagree with that. I suppose it really depends on how you define "long". To my way of thinking I guess that would be anything over 500 miles.

...but the freedom to do so is a very important consideration. Particularly in the US, it ranks as close to a "basic human right" in the minds of many.
Whether or not it is considered a right I couldn't say but if we want people to replace their ICE cars with BEVs we have to accept that range anxiety must go away to the extent that potential buyers don't see any difference with respect to this between the two types of vehicles.

It likely makes more sense to rent a vehicle for occasional long trips than consistently haul around huge batteries "just in case".
I don't want to have to rent a car for a road trip and I don't have to with a Tesla. And that includes going places where the SC network does not reach. Whatever the mission (local trip or road trip) I just want to be able to jump into the car and go. A year's experience with Tesla has shown me that I can in fact do that but I would not expect someone who has no experience with Tesla nor all Tesla drivers to necessarily accept that. Would I like more range? Certainly - it's one of the reasons for reserving an R1T and, subsequently a CyberTruck. Note that in one year the advertised range of these similar sized vehicles went up by 100 miles. I by no means think that the battery technology advancement curve is flattening at this point.

Another thing to bear in mind when thinking about trucks and SUVs is that the larger batteries are not there solely for road trip range. They are also there to enable towing just as the larger gas tanks are in ICE vehicles used for this purpose.


Audi offers free rental days with their e-tron (and other vehicles). Fiat did that with their 500e as well.
That's because those cars have, in terms of today's technology, pretty poor range and limited charging infrastructure.

This is likely the biggest barrier to widespread adoption - we'll see if this years EA build-out this gets it to the point where the Supercharger was 3 years ago. They have a lot of catching up to do.
Tesla's huge advantage in the marketplace today is that it has batteries, the means to charge them and an insured supply of them and the technologists to advance them within house. The other companies do indeed have a lot of catching up to do. I don't want to see Tesla emerge as the only player on the field though it is clear they will dominate for some years. I guess Tesla has me convinced that starting with a clean sheet of paper, i.e. free of the strictures imposed by traditional ways of producing motor vehicles, is the path to success in BEVs. As Rivian has taken this same approach but without gimmicks like making the vehicles out of plastic found on the beach or looking like a WWII Jeep, I have more confidence in them than the others in the field. The hefty infusions of cash help too. The dead elephant in the room is, of course, the EA charging network. Running the trips I do with the Tesla through ABRP using the Rivian model makes it look as if those trips are doable if not as conveniently as with a Tesla. I expect things to improve here but I am still a bit concerned.



From what we have seen from Rivian, they are much more likely to follow the traditional approach. We will likely see the production line fired up to produce vehicles (that will be extensively tested but never be sold) about 6 months before actual production begins.
They have already done quite a bit of testing with the Ford mules, the run up the South American continent etc.
 
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RayzorBEV

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I regularly make trips that are over 1000 miles on my Tesla. SC really helps to minimize my down time. SC rocks!!
 

Mjhirsch78

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As Rivian has taken this same approach but without gimmicks like making the vehicles out of plastic found on the beach or looking like a WWII Jeep, I have more confidence in them than the others in the field.
This quote made my day. That’s all. Carry on with the cool conversation. You folks are a great end to my day everyday. So thank you!
 

Pherdnut

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I preordered the R1T specifically for road trips/camping. I can live with a little extra down time on long trips in a truck with an interior that I think ranks in my top 3 for places I wouldn't mind dying as much in.

I'm actually hopeful that they'll be a little bit ahead of schedule. In Jan 2019 they were planning on needing to spend 200 mill on the factory. 2-3ish billion in investments later they just dropped 750 mill on the factory and they've been able to drop their prices by 10k.

I don't think they expected this positive of a response from investors. If they might start crash-testing in Q2, I assume that means they might have their first complete production line up and running by Q2. I assume most would prefer to crash test with an actual factory produced car. They've had a full year to test their prototypes ahead of that. I'm playing along that it's December but it's hard not to check the forums every couple of hours or so.

The only date that's been sliding has been the one for the configurator. As a web developer I'm not at all surprised by that. Who in a company full of engineers working on a product this exciting wants to take on the website problem? I mean, I totally would, and also their next gen of easy-to-iterate-on infotainment UI using web technology, but they didn't ask. So typical.
 

Rockstar2020

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You might be right about 2021, so close to my Cybertruck delivery date and that's too bad. I'm seriously considering cancel my order and just buy a Model Y this year and then take delivery of my Cybertruck in 2021...
That's exactly what I did. The Cybertruck fits my needs better and there is no beating the Tesla Supercharger network. I have had my MY for 2 months now and love it! Home run for Tesla on that model.
 

ajdelange

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.... there is no beating the Tesla Supercharger network...
Yes, that's probably still true but the gap has closed considerably in just the last year. In recent experiments with ABRP I have found that my seasonal N/S migration can be done faster in a Rivian R1T than in my Raven Model X. At the time I joined this forum I was really concerned that charging was going to be a problem and feared that the non Tesla network would not build out fast enough to the point that I would wind up cancelling the Rivian order for that reason. My recent examination of the situation has convinced me that I need no longer worry about this.

It was indeed a valid concern at one time. Now it would be a pity if someone cancelled his reservation because of road trip charging (which is about 15% of charging) concerns.
 
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jjwolf120

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If your expecting Tesla to deliver a Cybertruck in 2021, you are very likely to be disappointed. They haven't even started to build the factory where they will build it. It is a completely brand new design and they have a history of optimistic estimates. They have to build a number of prototypes, test them, build a factory, increase their battery cell production considerably before they can start to produce the Cybertruck.
 

Rockstar2020

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If your expecting Tesla to deliver a Cybertruck in 2021, you are very likely to be disappointed. They haven't even started to build the factory where they will build it. It is a completely brand new design and they have a history of optimistic estimates. They have to build a number of prototypes, test them, build a factory, increase their battery cell production considerably before they can start to produce the Cybertruck.
I think your right. It will probably be 2023. In the meantime my Tesla model Y is amazing!
 

UP Finn

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I'm kicking around selling my Trackhawk and buying a Model Y now. Then wait until 2023 when that ugly Cybertruck is ready. Tesla's worked out a lot of the kinks that Rivian is going to be learning on the fly. And there's no comparison to their charging network. I'm not totally convinced that Rivian will last. I could be wrong.
 

skyote

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I'm kicking around selling my Trackhawk and buying a Model Y now. Then wait until 2023 when that ugly Cybertruck is ready. Tesla's worked out a lot of the kinks that Rivian is going to be learning on the fly. And there's no comparison to their charging network. I'm not totally convinced that Rivian will last. I could be wrong.
By 2023, I think the CCS charging network will be more widely available than Tesla superchargers.
 

jjwolf120

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I'm hoping that Rivian avoids many of the kinks that Tesla suffered through, and to some extent is still suffering through (initial build quality). Don't forget that R.J. studied manufacturing practices around the world, so there is at least some chance that Rivian manufacturing will go more smoothly.
 

jacobh

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While the delivery dates are a bit disappointing its understandable given the circumstances.
I would rather them take longer to manufacture/delivery the vehicles than to do it faster and find out there's problems with the vehicles.
The wait will be worth it.
 

Billyk24

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By 2023, I think the CCS charging network will be more widely available than Tesla superchargers.
Elelctrify America has the largest USA CCS fast charging network designed for "road trips". Today (July 7th) EA has 443 sites with 112 future sites under planning and/or construction. That is 1513 fast (150-350kW) CCS chargers with 442 CHAdeMO chargers and 100 level 2 chargers. At the end of 2021:
EA - 800 total charging station sites with about 3,500 chargers by December 2021 .
For comparison: Tesla had 373 supercharger sites with 2736 charger handles in 2017 when the Model 3 first arrived.
EA usa map good june 2020.jpg
 

EyeOnRivian

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Elelctrify America has the largest USA CCS fast charging network designed for "road trips". Today (July 7th) EA has 443 sites with 112 future sites under planning and/or construction. That is 1513 fast (150-350kW) CCS chargers with 442 CHAdeMO chargers and 100 level 2 chargers. At the end of 2021:
EA - 800 total charging station sites with about 3,500 chargers by December 2021 .
For comparison: Tesla had 373 supercharger sites with 2736 charger handles in 2017 when the Model 3 first arrived.
It's great to see the increase in CCS FC stations across the US. But don't get too mesmerized by these numbers as there are still plenty of challenges that are being dealt with. There are pain points that exist today that were, and to a degree still, not being addressed. E.g. number of reliable charging ports per station. If EV sales/ownership were to skyrocket it could easily create more problems than solve at least with regards to charging.

This recently posted Autoweek article gets into some of these issues along with an update the EV charging infrastructure. It's an interesting read -
"These Are the Obstacles Still Facing EV Charging"
 

Mjhirsch78

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Great article. That major survey a while back indicated 75% of EV owners have never charged away from home. The article points out this requires you own a home to charge at. It further illustrates the engineering and economic challenges for charging and just electricity systems ahead as the EV market really begins to balloon in the next five years.
 
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