Snow Driving Issues

[R.I.P.]

I am curious.....can the brake lock differential behavior, i.e. traction control, be completely defeated in the DM's? Or does the traction control still apply brakes and attemp to send power to the tire that is anchored?

You can turn it off.

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[R1Tom]

You can turn it off.

That would be good for DM people to know. Probably makes a big difference to get that anchoring effect to work. I know when on off camber mud in the Jeep, it works best to make sure it is off and keep that brake lock differential stuff out of the picture.

Otherwise I would think the computer would mess with that anchored tire when the low traction tire slips and it uses brakes to send power to the anchor causing it to slip.

 

[R.I.P.]

That would be good for DM people to know. Probably makes a big difference to get that anchoring effect to work. I know when on off camber mud in the Jeep, it works best to make sure it is off and keep that brake lock differential stuff out of the picture.

The DM version of Snow Mode takes care of that... If it is real slick (mud/snow/ice) it makes the rig wife-level easy to handle.

 

[R1Tom]

The DM version of Snow Mode takes care of that... If it is real slick (mud/snow/ice) it makes the rig wife-level easy to handle.

Very nice!

 

[usulio]

If your tires are better for what we are doing (mud, snow, rocks and slop) come and show us up on the trails with all of your superiority.

Wait ... so ... the one thing that everyone agrees is important for winter driving, snow tires ... are not relevant for the conditions you test in .... but the conclusions from your tests ... show DM is better than QM in snowy conditions ... but not snowy conditions where people run snow tires ... ?

I appreciate the info you try to share with us, but if you're going to talk about winter driving safety and not even factor in snow tires, I have to question if it's relevant to 99% of us.

 

[R.I.P.]

Wait ... so ... the one thing that everyone agrees is important for winter driving, snow tires ... are not relevant for the conditions you test in .... but the conclusions from your tests ... show DM is better than QM in snowy conditions ... but not snowy conditions where people run snow tires ... ?

I appreciate the info you try to share with us, but if you're going to talk about winter driving safety and not even factor in snow tires, I have to question if it's relevant to 99% of us.

No.

"Snow tires" for the highway are a very different animal than off-road tires.

I do heavy off-roading. "Snow tires" built for the highway are not going to get a truck 50ft up the trails that we run.

But there are very inexperienced drivers on this forum who don't understand that.

However, lessons in traction learned off-roading certainly do translate when things get bad enough on the road.

If you don't go out in conditions that are that bad, then you will never have to really worry about it, will you?

 

[HopefullyR1S]

I have only drove our R1S (DM,22) in “winter” conditions once and it did fine. It was around 20F and we were mainly on the interstate. The left lane was completely covered and the right lane was slushy. We went slow (~50-60mph) and never did I feel out of control.

Having said that I would have much preferred our Outback in those conditions. Mainly because it has brand new Blizzak winter tires. I also have a lot more experience driving Subarus in the snow.

Snow tires make all the difference when temperatures are below freezing for multiple reasons. If we only had one car, I would have an extra set of wheels with snow tires on them. Even if only needed 5-10 times a year they are still worth it IMO.

 

[freshpow]

No.

"Snow tires" for the highway are a very different animal than off-road tires.

I do heavy off-roading. "Snow tires" built for the highway are not going to get a truck 50ft up the trails that we run.

But there are very inexperienced drivers on this forum who don't understand that.

However, lessons in traction learned off-roading certainly do translate when things get bad enough on the road.

If you don't go out in conditions that are that bad, then you will never have to really worry about it, will you?

I appreciate all of the knowledge you’ve shared on the topic as it’s important to recognize the potential limitations of our vehicles. It’s also helpful to understand how the vehicle will perform in extreme conditions before we encounter those conditions ourselves.

That said, you love to dramatically overstate the importance of your very specific use case as a heavy off-roader. For those of us that live in colder climates, the vast majority will be better served running snow tires in the winter months, irrespective of quad vs. dual motor. While a dual with proper snow tires will provide the best lateral traction possible, a quad with snow tires has ample lateral stability in all but the most extreme conditions.

 

[R.I.P.]

I have only drove our R1S (DM,22) in “winter” conditions once and it did fine. It was around 20F and we were mainly on the interstate. The left lane was completely covered and the right lane was slushy. We went slow (~50-60mph) and never did I feel out of control.

Having said that I would have much preferred our Outback in those conditions. Mainly because it has brand new Blizzak winter tires. I also have a lot more experience driving Subarus in the snow.

Snow tires make all the difference when temperatures are below freezing for multiple reasons. If we only had one car, I would have an extra set of wheels with snow tires on them. Even if only needed 5-10 times a year they are still worth it IMO.

Hard to beat a Subaru with good tires for on-road snow conditions.

Differentials front and rear to anchor the vehicle from moving side-to-side, and excellent traction control.

 

[R.I.P.]

I appreciate all of the knowledge you’ve shared on the topic as it’s important to recognize the potential limitations of our vehicles. It’s also helpful to understand how the vehicle will perform in extreme conditions before we encounter those conditions ourselves.

That said, you love to dramatically overstate the importance of your very specific use case as a heavy off-roader. For those of us that live in colder climates, the vast majority will be better served running snow tires in the winter months, irrespective of quad vs. dual motor. While a dual with proper snow tires will provide the best lateral traction possible, a quad with snow tires has ample lateral stability in all but the most extreme conditions.

This latest conversation was started by a driver telling me I was using the "wrong tires" for my use purpose. My whole point is that my purpose is likely more extreme than most.

A "winter tire" built for the road is not going to work for what I do.

 

[freshpow]

This latest conversation was started by a driver telling me I was using the "wrong tires" for my use purpose. My whole point is that my purpose is likely more extreme than most.

A "winter tire" built for the road is not going to work for what I do.

I’m not suggesting a winter tire for you. I’m suggesting you tone down your rhetoric around the quad’s lack of prowess in (on-road) winter conditions since you never tested your quad with winter tires.

 

[R.I.P.]

I’m not suggesting a winter tire for you. I’m suggesting you tone down your rhetoric around the quad’s lack of prowess in (on-road) winter conditions since you never tested your quad with winter tires.

See, that seems an odd thing to say.

Because I put my quad on the same tires that I have on the Raptor and on the TJ. These are the same Toyo Open country MTs that the yodas and other jeeps are using, and then we went out four-wheel driving. So having what you call "winter tires" on the Quad would have handicapped the quad, as it would have not been on equal standing.

As it was, on equal standing, and on equal tires, the quad performed incredibly poorly in many off-road scenarios.

I'm not sure what about that is confusing people?

 

[R.I.P.]

I’m not suggesting a winter tire for you. I’m suggesting you tone down your rhetoric around the quad’s lack of prowess in (on-road) winter conditions since you never tested your quad with winter tires.

I guess to further answer your question about on-road performance, I am extremely familiar with what happens to the welded yodas on the road. They are fine, if you don't mind a little chirp here and there until things get icy and slippery. Then they can find themselves in difficulty, as they have a tendency to move sideways as soon as they break loose.

This is similar to the way the quad behaves under similar circumstances, whether on road or off. My comments were to answer people's questions as to why this is happening to them. Information is power. For those that wish to understand the reasons behind the machine's behavior, I hope to be helpful.

There is a little bit of what seems to be a Flat Earth Society that exists on this board. So yeah, each time somebody pops up and says something that I know to be categorically incorrect (the earth is not flat, and quads are not latterly stable), yeah, I will call them out on it.

 

[freshpow]

I guess to further answer your question about on-road performance, I am extremely familiar with what happens to the welded yodas on the road. They are fine, if you don't mind a little chirp here and there until things get icy and slippery. Then they can find themselves in difficulty, as they have a tendency to move sideways as soon as they break loose.

This is similar to the way the quad behaves under similar circumstances, whether on road or off. My comments were to answer people's questions as to why this is happening to them. Information is power. For those that wish to understand the reasons behind the machine's behavior, I hope to be helpful.

There is a little bit of what seems to be a Flat Earth Society that exists on this board. So yeah, each time somebody pops up and says something that I know to be categorically incorrect (the earth is not flat, and quads are not latterly stable), yeah, I will call them out on it.

I appreciate your knowledge and real world experience in extreme off-roading situations, but your humongous ego seems to hinder your ability to share practical advice with the rest of us.

 

[R.I.P.]

I appreciate your knowledge and real world experience in extreme off-roading situations, but your humongous ego seems to hinder your ability to share practical advice with the rest of us.

Lol.

I am guessing you have never spent a lot of time around my kind. It is very likely there is a significant cultural gap between us, so I do apologize if I offend.

For my part, I admit I easily run out of patience with posters who want to talk about things and places they have never been. I am intimately familiar with what it is like and how I need to prepare when jumping out of an aircraft at 15,000 ft wearing oxygen. It is quite easy for someone to earn my disdain by piping off about what they think about how that works, if they have never done that or been there.

So yeah, I do get curt with people when start freely giving advise while obviously not having even the base level experience to have formed an educated opinion.

But to your point, I'll take a break from posting as I have put the information there for anyone interested, but arguing the point fulfils no purpose.

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