Second row EMF measurements?

[doit82]

It is indeed out of concern for children. Also, EMF exposure may predict miscarriage rate in pregnant women (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-16623-8.pdf), and the second row likely has less EMF than the first or third rows. I'm not sure it's a deal-breaker; it hasn't stopped me from driving exclusively electric cars for the past ten years, but it might affect which EV is my next EV. I use cell phones, microwaves, and vacuum cleaners, but I don't subject my children to them for up two hours every day commuting to and from school and various activities. Tesla, for all their faults, produces cars with low EMF (last I measured).

For what it's worth...to be fully informed, there are some concerns with this article....

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01391-3

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-85479-w

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[cbuckley]

For what it's worth...to be fully informed, there are some concerns with this article....

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01391-3

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-85479-w

I haven’t seen any persuasive evidence that EMF from consumer devices is an imminent threat to health or anywhere near as dangerous as many of the most popular food and drink choices people make.

Is there anything out in the medical literature that I’m missing?

 

[doit82]

I haven’t seen any persuasive evidence that EMF from consumer devices is an imminent threat to health or anywhere near as dangerous as many of the most popular food and drink choices people make.

Is there anything out in the medical literature that I’m missing?

I think you are probably correct, although I have not done an extended medical search. Not something I was taught in medical school though. There are many more things out there to probably worry about...Soda...Fast food...the other cars on the road. Not something I would be concerning myself with, but to each their own.

 

[Zoidz]

Chuck, is that you?

 

[Zoidz]

It is indeed out of concern for children. Also, EMF exposure may predict miscarriage rate in pregnant women (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-16623-8.pdf), and the second row likely has less EMF than the first or third rows. I'm not sure it's a deal-breaker; it hasn't stopped me from driving exclusively electric cars for the past ten years, but it might affect which EV is my next EV. I use cell phones, microwaves, and vacuum cleaners, but I don't subject my children to them for up two hours every day commuting to and from school and various activities. Tesla, for all their faults, produces cars with low EMF (last I measured).

When we got married, my wife bought an electric blanket. The first pregnancy ended very early in miscarriage. The doctor mentioned this as a possible risk so we got rid of the electric blanket. Subsequent pregnancies were problem free.

Coincidence.... or not? I am most certainly not a Chuck McGill tin foil hat type, but I do respect the idea that it might be a good idea to minimize EMF exposure to children.

 

[cbrcanuck]

I haven’t seen any persuasive evidence that EMF from consumer devices is an imminent threat to health or anywhere near as dangerous as many of the most popular food and drink choices people make.

Is there anything out in the medical literature that I’m missing?

I've always wondered about this topic. Had two colleagues pass away from brain tumours years ago, and they were the type that lived with the bluetooth ear pieces in all day, everyday. Made me wonder. From my limited understanding, it's going to be a total exposure thing, so depending on where you work, what devices you live with that are always on, etc, it seems pretty logical that there would be an impact at some point. Count how many antennas are in your house (at least 3 in each phone, 2 or 3 in each tablet, 2 or 3 in each computer, how many in each tv, streaming video player, wifi router(s), cars, smart appliances, etc. The average home probably has dozens of always on devices.

Would love to see some more studies on this. And yes, I'm typing this while bathing in all those signals myself. Thanks to the OP for asking.

Which also just reminded me of my first cell phone - gave me a rash on my leg where it sat in my pocket. Didn't believe it was from that, so I switch pockets. The rash developed in the new spot within a couple of weeks after switching. Got rid of that phone pretty darn quick!

 

[NineElectrics]

I haven’t seen any persuasive evidence that EMF from consumer devices is an imminent threat to health or anywhere near as dangerous as many of the most popular food and drink choices people make.

Is there anything out in the medical literature that I’m missing?

I don't think there is either; see https://health.ec.europa.eu/other-pages/health-sc-basic-page/final-opinion-emf_en for an EU meta review.

That said, if Rivian EMF were, say, 100x higher than anything else humans are consistently exposed to, I would be concerned. Cell phones produce EMF, but cell phone batteries are so weak, they can't produce much power, relatively speaking. Microwave ovens produce more; I don't know about you, but I'm not going to spend two hours in front of my microwave oven every day. It's too far out of the norm to definitively say it's safe. An EV motor uses 25-50x more power than a microwave does.

 

[Zoidz]

I don't think there is either; see https://health.ec.europa.eu/other-pages/health-sc-basic-page/final-opinion-emf_en for an EU meta review.

That said, if the Rivain EMF were 100x higher than anything else humans are consistently exposed to, I would be concerned. Cell phones produce EMF, but cell phone batteries are so weak, they can't produce much power, relatively speaking. Microwave ovens produce more; I don't know about you, but I'm not going to spend two hours in front of my microwave oven every day. It's too far out of the norm to definitively say it's safe. An EV motor uses 25-50x more power than a microwave does.

Exactly. Science has limited (any?) data sets regarding long term, high power EMF exposure to children.

There are documented studies which indicate some correlation of some types of low level exposure. This is why I respect anyone who wants to limit their children's potential exposure to HIGH levels. We simply need more data. There's still a lot of health science we simply don't understand.

Several studies have analyzed the combined data from multiple studies of power line exposure and childhood leukemia:

• A pooled analysis of nine studies reported a twofold increase in risk of childhood leukemia among children with exposures of 0.4 μT or higher. Less than 1% of the children in the studies experienced this level of exposure (26).
• A meta-analysis of 15 studies observed a 1.7-fold increase in childhood leukemia among children with exposures of 0.3 μT or higher. A little more than 3% of children in the studies experienced this level of exposure (27).
• More recently, a pooled analysis of seven studies published after 2000 reported a 1.4-fold increase in childhood leukemia among children with exposures of 0.3 μT or higher. However, less than one half of 1% of the children in the studies experienced this level of exposure (28).

For the two pooled studies and the meta-analysis, the number of highly exposed children was too small to provide stable estimates of the dose–response relationship. This means that the findings could be interpreted to reflect linear increases in risk, a threshold effect at 0.3 or 0.4 μT, or no significant increase.


The interpretation of the finding of increased childhood leukemia risk among children with the highest exposures (at least 0.3 μT) is unclear.

 

[crashmtb]

@NineElectrics are there overhead high tension power lines near your home?

There are pressing concerns other than EMF. Do you have a gas stove? Do you live anywhere near any airport flight paths? There’s also climate change. In 30 years cancer from EMF will be a tiny concern compared to everything else. Kind of like now.

 

[NineElectrics]

Unfortunately not. The manual talks about FCC-regulated RF, not EMF.

 

[Craigins]

I was expecting a ghost hunters reference here. A little disappointed.

 

[NineElectrics]

@NineElectrics are there overhead high tension power lines near your home?

There are pressing concerns other than EMF. Do you have a gas stove? Do you live anywhere near any airport flight paths? There’s also climate change. In 30 years cancer from EMF will be a tiny concern compared to everything else. Kind of like now.

With respect, that's is a victim mentality. Control the things you can control. I don't have a gas stove. The odds of dying in a commercial plane crash are one in 30 million. There have been zero fatalities aboard U.S. commercial flights since 2009. I buy carbon offset credits, donate to climate action NGOs, and have driven electric cars in a low carbon electricity grid for the last decade.

On the other hand, the lifetime risk of developing cancer is roughly 40%.

 

[NineElectrics]

You should be fine as long as you're wearing your tin foil hat.

Whatever you do, don't dare fly on an airplane

Excuse me--this is a sincere question and a serious thread. We have been productively discussing the the latest scientific research on this subject. Your comment is seriously disrespectful, illogical, and not funny. Please take your shtick elsewhere.

 

[crashmtb]

With respect, that's is a victim mentality. Control the things you can control. I don't have a gas stove. The odds of dying in a commercial plane crash are one in 30 million. There have been zero fatalities aboard U.S. commercial flights since 2009. I buy carbon offset credits, donate to climate action NGOs, and have driven electric cars in a low carbon electricity grid for the last decade.

On the other hand, the lifetime risk of developing cancer is roughly 40%.

the pollution from gas stoves is so bad that in a recent study, some of the researchers involved who happened to have gas stoves all went out and bought electric ones, having been surprised by their own findings.

I was referring to pollution from the exhausts of aircraft. It is not insignificant. dont be worried about an airplane landing on your head, be more concerned about its emissions.


not sure what you’re on about with “victim mentality“. Not living near sources of pollution is a very controllable thing.

focusing on EMF in a car is very much trees vs forest.

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