Roll Call for the App - Android versus iOS

[crashmtb]

WHAT? NO BLACKBERRY=NO RIVIAN!

Blackberry?! If my palm pilot and Sharp organizer don’t integrate, I’m cancelling my preorder and reporting rivian to the BBB

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[Mjhirsch78]

Oh yes! They are quite a bit still around. BlackBerry owns QNX. QNX is _the premier_ software platform (think like MS Windows or MacOS) used in vehicles, particularly in the functional safety domain.

We’ll I’ll be. Learn something new every day. Thanks!

 

[svet-am]

For those that are interested, here's the product page for QNX - Embedded OS, Support and Services | RTOS, Hypervisor | BlackBerry QNX

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

QNX was quite popular, but I think it’s losing that popularity in favor of Android and custom Linux builds.

 

[svet-am]

QNX was quite popular, but I think it’s losing that popularity in favor of Android and custom Linux builds.

I don’t know what you are referring to. QNX and Android are not used in the same way at all in vehicles. QNX is used extensively in safety-centric applications like ECUs. Android is limited only to infotainment systems for vehicles. There is no way Android would be used on an ECU because it (a) doesn’t have a suitable real-time profile and (b) is t safety certified or safety certifiable.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

I don’t know what you are referring to. QNX and Android are not used in the same way at all in vehicles. QNX is used extensively in safety-centric applications like ECUs. Android is limited only to infotainment systems for vehicles. There is no way Android would be used on an ECU because it (a) doesn’t have a suitable real-time profile and (b) is t safety certified or safety certifiable.

I thought we were talking about infotainment?? People are talking about “apps”. No one else has asked “gee, I wonder what the ABS module software stack is”.

QNX used to be used extensively for infotainment, but it’s fallen out of favor. Android and custom Linux builds have taken over.

 

[svet-am]

I thought we were talking about infotainment?? People are talking about “apps”. No one else has asked “gee, I wonder what the ABS module software stack is”.

QNX used to be used extensively for infotainment, but it’s fallen out of favor. Android and custom Linux builds have taken over.

The thread definitely took a weird turn. My OP was exclusively about support for apps. At some point someone tried to be cute in the reference windows phone, blackberry, palm OS, etc. Someone else posted a news article about BlackBerry and then the thread took the turn because people were surprised BlackBerry still exists. The new direction of the thread was about blackberry and their QNX product.

 

[R_1_T]

Steering this thread back on course, the topic actually has multiple layers to it.

• What is Rivian's strategy for mobile device integration?
  • What platforms will be supported?
  • How will they be integrated?

From what I understand, Rivian doesn't plan to support either of the platform-specific automotive interfaces (Apple CarPlay or Android Auto).
Why would they do this?
As a new company, I think that they want to put their UX front and center as part of the overall brand ID. This is something the "traditional" OEMs have struggled with as well.
In addition, I believe that Rivian feels the overall "value proposition" and uniqueness of their offering outweighs the lack of automotive-specific mobile device integration. Support for Apple CarPlay requires an authentication chip, so it's more than "just software". Finally, there's time/cost required for certification by Apple & Google for the automotive interfaces.

Rivian could include the authentication hardware, but chose to keep it latent for now and enable the support later on as part of an OTA update for the IVI system. They've got a lot on their plate at the moment and dealing with Apple and Google at the moment would just add more.

On a personal note, I haven't made a single vehicle purchase based on mobile device integration or the lack thereof and have no plans to do so in the future. If anything I've grown more fond of not being constantly connected as time goes on.

 

[Zoidz]

I have some professional insight into the mobile app development challenges. For my job, I have developed a couple of simple IOS apps primarily as a learning experience, and also looked into cross platform development.

There are a bunch of challenges, due the obvious differences in Apple vs Android hardware, but also due to subtle differences in the platform security models, differences in or lack of API calls (Application Programming Interface), etc. It's even more challenging in that every vendor's version of Android can be customized and be different from the others.

So there are two choices for a developer:
1- Develop native custom apps for IOS and Android, and use all of the API calls/features available on that platform. This provides the best User Interface and User Experience, but it's also the most work and expense for the developer - up front development and throughout the lifecycle. Android adds the challenge that for the best QC testing, you must test on multiple versions of Android on multiple hardware vendors. Apple IOS is pretty much test once, run anywhere due the strict environment implemented by Apple.

2-The other choice is to use a Cross Platform development tool, such as Microsoft's Xamarin. This, in theory, let's the developer create one User Interface and application that works on all platforms. You might deduce that it forces everything down to a common denominator scenario, and therefore nothing is optimized and it simply can't provide an optimal UI/UX. Many hardware/platform specific features can't be used, etc. The benefit to the developer is one application to develop, but ALOT more testing to get it right on all platforms.

IMO, a company such as Rivian should be providing native apps on both platforms, and not using cross platform development tools.

 

[crashmtb]

IMO, a company such as Rivian should be providing native apps on both platforms, and not using cross platform development tools.

given that they’ve been hiring both android and iOS spftware people, they are surely developing native apps for both platforms.

 

[svet-am]

On a personal note, I haven't made a single vehicle purchase based on mobile device integration or the lack thereof and have no plans to do so in the future. If anything I've grown more fond of not being constantly connected as time goes on.

I generally have been the exact same way. I am one of the people who very keen to know if/how to disable Alexa on the Rivian. That said, bespoke EV platforms like Tesla have historically made the mobile app portion of the ownership experience intrinsic. There are some things that can _only_ be done in the app. That is, the app is not just an "add-on" experience but is part of the mainline ownership experience.

 

[Attesan997]

I generally have been the exact same way. I am one of the people who very keen to know if/how to disable Alexa on the Rivian. That said, bespoke EV platforms like Tesla have historically made the mobile app portion of the ownership experience intrinsic. There are some things that can _only_ be done in the app. That is, the app is not just an "add-on" experience but is part of the mainline ownership experience.

While this has been a net positive for me I can understand those who are hesistant to jump into this pool. Especially if they've never daily driven a Tesla. Hopefully Rivian can find a way to split the difference and make a useful app that can be a window to functionality and not the source of it. At this point my expectations are low, still not sure why I have to wait for my Tesla to wake up before I can send commands to it. Fixing it so commands can be stored until the vehicle wakes up would save me the 15 seconds of starting at my phone every other day waiting to turn on preconditioning or some other function.

 

[crashmtb]

On a personal note, I haven't made a single vehicle purchase based on mobile device integration or the lack thereof and have no plans to do so in the future. If anything I've grown more fond of not being constantly connected as time goes on.

I think choosing to not be constantly connected is an especially important point with an “adventure vehicle”. If I’m going camping or something, I don’t have time for the phone. It’s in a drawer or the glovebox or whatever. Pictures? Real camera. There’s no cellular reception anyway.

 

[R_1_T]

I generally have been the exact same way. I am one of the people who very keen to know if/how to disable Alexa on the Rivian. That said, bespoke EV platforms like Tesla have historically made the mobile app portion of the ownership experience intrinsic. There are some things that can _only_ be done in the app. That is, the app is not just an "add-on" experience but is part of the mainline ownership experience.

I'm not debating that at all, but a mobile app to support phone as key or remote charge control/monitoring is fundamentally different than the IVI supporting CarPlay or Android Auto.

 

[bac4uw]

I use Amazon Music on iOS and have been happy with that combo. We have Alexa dots in the house, but I am not sure about having Alexa riding with me in the Rivian.

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