Rivian - we are not abandoning Georgia

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Agreed ?. I do not know how anyone (besides trolls) can blame Rivian for this decision. I still see ignorant comments on other social media made from people that, almost certain, as soon as you click on their profile you'll see a glut of anti-Rivian pictures/posts/comments.

Personally, just looking at the politics of Georgia, I feel like an EV factory was never going to be a good fit there. But I guess Rivian was a little too optimistic. If that land becomes another strip of fast food, car washes, and Dollar Generals, instead of a high tech, high wage manufacturing center, the residents will have no one to blame but themselves.

We literally saw the same NIMBY-ism here in Northern Virginia not that long ago. When Disney wanted to build a park here. But people protested, Disney backed out, and look what we got instead. ??

Didn't they end up putting in a fancy neighborhood with golf course instead? Since those are in such short supply in VA ?

The thing is, it's not even the politics in Georgia. The governor and legislature support the move. It's just the politics of a handful of very motivated people who happen to be nearby.

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[DuoRivians]

Agreed ?. I do not know how anyone (besides trolls) can blame Rivian for this decision. I still see ignorant comments on other social media made from people that, almost certain, as soon as you click on their profile you'll see a glut of anti-Rivian pictures/posts/comments.

Personally, just looking at the politics of Georgia, I feel like an EV factory was never going to be a good fit there. But I guess Rivian was a little too optimistic. If that land becomes another strip of fast food, car washes, and Dollar Generals, instead of a high tech, high wage manufacturing center, the residents will have no one to blame but themselves.

We literally saw the same NIMBY-ism here in Northern Virginia not that long ago. When Disney wanted to build a park here. But people protested, Disney backed out, and look what we got instead. ??

Georgia is generally pro EVs when it comes to manufacturing. Hyundai is building a big factory there too. It’s just the NIMBYs for Rivian.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-during-hyundai-day-in-georgia-302071754.html

 

[Dantzig]

The opposition to the plant has nothing to do with EVs, Rivian as a company, or anything else besides destroying a beautiful, small-town, out-in-the-country part of the state that generations of people (not to mention wildlife) have called home and replacing it with industrial activity, when there is no reason for that activity to be that far out from any populated area. It could not be more polar opposite from what Rivian did with the plant in Normal.

At the local (and only) grocery store in Social Circle, my wife asked “Is there a shopper card or loyalty card I need, to get the sale prices?” The cashier looked at her, confused. My wife tried again, “Like the Kroger Plus card?” The cashier responded, apologizing for not understanding: “I’ve never been to a Kroger.”

Another anecdote: My cousin and his wife with two teenage children do not have internet at their home. He manages a hunting plantation. She works at an insurance company. From time to time she stops by the public library to check her email. They are very happy.

Ultimately, people will adjust. All of the old will be gone and replaced with new. Lots of pavement and cement will exist where there had been nature (and currently there is now just Georgia red clay). Folks will move on. But what saddens me is the disregard and disrespect for what those people’s lives had been and what they wanted their lives to continue to be.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[TTedP]

The opposition to the plant has nothing to do with EVs, Rivian as a company, or anything else besides destroying a beautiful, small-town, out-in-the-country part of the state that generations of people (not to mention wildlife) have called home and replacing it with industrial activity, when there is no reason for that activity to be that far out from any populated area. It could not be more polar opposite from what Rivian did with the plant in Normal.

At the local (and only) grocery store in Social Circle, my wife asked “Is there a shopper card or loyalty card I need, to get the sale prices?” The cashier looked at her, confused. My wife tried again, “Like the Kroger Plus card?” The cashier responded, apologizing for not understanding: “I’ve never been to a Kroger.”

Another anecdote: My cousin and his wife with two teenage children do not have internet at their home. He manages a hunting plantation. She works at an insurance company. From time to time she stops by the public library to check her email. They are very happy.

Ultimately, people will adjust. All of the old will be gone and replaced with new. Lots of pavement and cement will exist where there had been nature (and currently there is now just Georgia red clay). Folks will move on. But what saddens me is the disregard and disrespect for what those people’s lives had been and what they wanted their lives to continue to be.

Sorry for the long post.

It sucks for sure when you settle in an area expecting one thing and progress upends it. But in that case, I'd blame the landowner (who presumably understood the local culture and didn't care), who decided to sell and open the door in the first place.

We see it all over (once) rural PA as well. Farmers selling land and in comes houses and strip malls. They're building around Gettysburg now.

None of that is Rivian's fault.

 

[Atlrivian]

I've attached the most recent amended agreement between Rivian and the state of GA. Rivian is operating through a subsidiary Rivian Horizon LLC. My questions to you legal types are:

What is Rivian's liability if they abandon the project given they are listed as Guarantor? My non-lawyer reading of this is Rivian can't escape by declaring bankruptcy with their subsidiary? Or am I completely wrong?

https://www.georgia.org/sites/defau...economic_development_agreement_09.26.2023.pdf

 

[Jiji]

My wild imagination of a guess is Rivian played Georgia against other states and got the deal they wanted. The state government and the local development authorities then went in and steamrolled the locals who having little say in the matter resisted as best they could.

I like this list of those involved from siteselection.com, no mention of the local communities at all:

Many agencies participated in the process. They included the Governor’s Office, the Technical College System of Georgia, Georgia Quick Start, Georgia Department of Labor, Metro Atlanta Chamber, Georgia Department of Economic Development, Georgia Ports Authority, Georgia Department of Transportation, Georgia Power, and the Joint Development Authority of Jasper, Morgan, Newton and Walton Counties.

Rivian was bringing the jobs but the state failed to sell the idea at the local level which delayed things until economics took over. Hoping for a successful R2 launch so they can finish what they started there.

 

[Hillbilly]

Georgia is generally pro EVs when it comes to manufacturing. Hyundai is building a big factory there too. It’s just the NIMBYs for Rivian.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-during-hyundai-day-in-georgia-302071754.html

I'd agree with this. If they built closer to Lagrange/further south, they'd have found the communities more supportive of a plant.

 

[Hillbilly]

I've attached the most recent amended agreement between Rivian and the state of GA. Rivian is operating through a subsidiary Rivian Horizon LLC. My questions to you legal types are:

What is Rivian's liability if they abandon the project given they are listed as Guarantor? My non-lawyer reading of this is Rivian can't escape by declaring bankruptcy with their subsidiary? Or am I completely wrong?

https://www.georgia.org/sites/defau...economic_development_agreement_09.26.2023.pdf

Why would it matter? They either build the plant to achieve long term profitability or they stay relegated to Illinois and bleed out.

 

[Hillbilly]

The opposition to the plant has nothing to do with EVs, Rivian as a company, or anything else besides destroying a beautiful, small-town, out-in-the-country part of the state that generations of people (not to mention wildlife) have called home and replacing it with industrial activity, when there is no reason for that activity to be that far out from any populated area. It could not be more polar opposite from what Rivian did with the plant in Normal.

At the local (and only) grocery store in Social Circle, my wife asked “Is there a shopper card or loyalty card I need, to get the sale prices?” The cashier looked at her, confused. My wife tried again, “Like the Kroger Plus card?” The cashier responded, apologizing for not understanding: “I’ve never been to a Kroger.”

Another anecdote: My cousin and his wife with two teenage children do not have internet at their home. He manages a hunting plantation. She works at an insurance company. From time to time she stops by the public library to check her email. They are very happy.

Ultimately, people will adjust. All of the old will be gone and replaced with new. Lots of pavement and cement will exist where there had been nature (and currently there is now just Georgia red clay). Folks will move on. But what saddens me is the disregard and disrespect for what those people’s lives had been and what they wanted their lives to continue to be.

Sorry for the long post.

I'll be that guy...

If they wanted to say what happened with the land, they should have bought it themselves.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

My wild imagination of a guess is Rivian played Georgia against other states and got the deal they wanted. The state government and the local development authorities then went in and steamrolled the locals who having little say in the matter resisted as best they could.

I like this list of those involved from siteselection.com, no mention of the local communities at all:



Rivian was bringing the jobs but the state failed to sell the idea at the local level which delayed things until economics took over. Hoping for a successful R2 launch so they can finish what they started there.

I'm confident that this is mostly true. The article you cited explains perfectly the crux of the problem. Rivian states that speed to market was a factor in site selection and I'm sure Georgia and the JDA committed to grease the skids for Rivian to meet their desired timeline. They quite clearly failed at that, since according to the timeline in that article the manufacturing facility should be mostly done by now with vehicles rolling off the assembly line later this year. If that timeline had remained intact, Rivian would be in a substantially strong position financially.

They clearly underestimated amount of pushback from the locals and, in a failure of imagination didn't account for the damage that could be done with lawfare even without any substantial case to be made.

 

[jeeden]

Didn't they end up putting in a fancy neighborhood with golf course instead? Since those are in such short supply in VA ?

The thing is, it's not even the politics in Georgia. The governor and legislature support the move. It's just the politics of a handful of very motivated people who happen to be nearby.

Yup, TONs of homes. Disney was ready to make tons of concessions and upgrade infrastructure like highways, airports, etc (I was all ready for them to open just as I needed a college summer job), but the ran them out eventually and the state upgraded all the highways etc at taxpayer expense.

They are having the same fight with the data centers up here now. People think "if you don't build what you are proposing, it will stay the same as it is now forever" and they don't realize that it WILL be changing, the question is what you want to be there when it changes.

It was supposed to look like this:

After Disney left, it turned into this (all homes mainly and some of the worst traffic in the area):

If I was Rivian, I wouldn't abandon GA, but I think I would make a point to keep GA nervous of the deal continuing and look for a sweeter deal with them. Starting with GA giving more breaks that make up for the money and time lost with all the delays from lawsuits.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Yup, TONs of homes. Disney was ready to make tons of concessions and upgrade infrastructure like highways, airports, etc (I was all ready for them to open just as I needed a college summer job), but the ran them out eventually and the state upgraded all the highways etc at taxpayer expense.

They are having the same fight with the data centers up here now. People think "if you don't build what you are proposing, it will stay the same as it is now forever" and they don't realize that it WILL be changing, the question is what you want to be there when it changes.

It was supposed to look like this:

After Disney left, it turned into this (all homes mainly and some of the worst traffic in the area):

If I was Rivian, I wouldn't abandon GA, but I think I would make a point to keep GA nervous of the deal continuing and look for a sweeter deal with them. Starting with GA giving more breaks that make up for the money and time lost with all the delays from lawsuits.

I remember watching a BrightSun Films episode of Abandoned on that project. It's a great youtube channel if you like learning about that sort of thing. They have a ton of content on Disney especially and a few episodes that involve that project.

 

[crashmtb]

The opposition to the plant has nothing to do with EVs, Rivian as a company, or anything else besides destroying a beautiful, small-town, out-in-the-country part of the state that generations of people (not to mention wildlife) have called home and replacing it with industrial activity, when there is no reason for that activity to be that far out from any populated area. It could not be more polar opposite from what Rivian did with the plant in Normal.

At the local (and only) grocery store in Social Circle, my wife asked “Is there a shopper card or loyalty card I need, to get the sale prices?” The cashier looked at her, confused. My wife tried again, “Like the Kroger Plus card?” The cashier responded, apologizing for not understanding: “I’ve never been to a Kroger.”

Another anecdote: My cousin and his wife with two teenage children do not have internet at their home. He manages a hunting plantation. She works at an insurance company. From time to time she stops by the public library to check her email. They are very happy.

Ultimately, people will adjust. All of the old will be gone and replaced with new. Lots of pavement and cement will exist where there had been nature (and currently there is now just Georgia red clay). Folks will move on. But what saddens me is the disregard and disrespect for what those people’s lives had been and what they wanted their lives to continue to be.

Sorry for the long post.

Did people similarly oppose the large certanteed, General Mills, solo container, stand ridge color, Stanton springs data Center, etc etc facilities in the area?

 

[Jiji]

Did people similarly oppose the large certanteed, General Mills, solo container, stand ridge color, Stanton springs data Center, etc etc facilities in the area?

Maybe it’s the scale, using my totally unrigorous research, according to Meta, 200+ jobs are there, Certainteed employs maybe 75. Rivian appears to be in annother league for jobs, land use and state involvement.

 

[crashmtb]

Maybe it’s the scale, using my totally unrigorous research, according to Meta, 200+ jobs are there, Certainteed employs maybe 75. Rivian appears to be in annother league for jobs, land use and state involvement.

I don’t expect somewjere like a data centre or building products facility to employ a lot of people-they’re automated. but they do take up a lot of space, and in the case of manufacturing facilities, have a lot of truck traffic.

What I was getting at is there are clearly a number of industrial facilities with large physical footprints in the area. so it’s a bit rich to claim it’s some unspoiled rural paradise.

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