Rivian News: R2, Production, Preorders, 2024, Amazon, NACS, Self Driving (from Global Auto Industry Conference 2023)

[Tahoe Man]

I guess GM and Ford are ignorant too.

I'm not sure where Rivian is going with their RAN network either. If they want to put in RAN chargers out in the forest where they get an occasional use on weekends, that's just stupid. With that, nobody has heard of RAN either. Maybe they can draft an agreement with Tesla, but if I was Tesla I'd decline any offer.

It's comical how everyone wants an open network standard such as CCS, yet it's such a pathetic garbage network that even the big boys decided to bail on it. It didn't work, no money to be made either.

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[MGA]

I think Rivian will never surrender to Tesla. I have a feeling that it is designed mainly to be a main competitor to Tesla after 5-10 years.

 

[Zoidz]

I guess GM and Ford are ignorant too.

Well, they have proven that multiple times in the past…..

 

[Zoidz]

I'm pretty confused by this statement.... Downtime in 2024 for upgrades?

1. When will there be downtime and for how long?? Q1? Q2?
2. And downtime means what? They will stop production at some point and completely stop making the current version and only produce vehicles moving forward with these upgrades?
3. So at this point should I wait for the "upgraded 2024" model?
4. Material cost saving sounds like cheaper materials, no?

I plan on getting the quad motor. Need help to decide if I should get my R1T in Q4 of 2023 or push and hold off until 2024? Thanks!

1. Only Rivian knows.
2. Downtime means the factory is shutdown, employees are temporarily laid off and/or assigned to other temporary tasks or training. Physical changes are made to the production line (new equipment, tooling, etc) to support whatever design or manufacturing process changes are being revised. It typically affects all vehicles moving forward, but not necessarily. For a hypothetical example, LFP revisions would affect all, but 2nd row captains chairs would only affect those with that option.
3. That’s for you to decide.
4. No. Cost savings does not imply cheaper materials. Replacing 4 independent control modules and associated wiring with one custom control module and network wiring is cheaper and theoretically better. As an analogy, you can buy a printer and a scanner which costs more money, or you can buy a multifunction printer which costs less and does the exact same functions. Is that cheaper quality?

 

[iansriv]

I'm wondering if the R2 will be something along the lines of an Outback / Forester-type of vehicle. The clay model that RJ was standing in front during that Instagram Live Q&A session gave off a Forester-type shape IMO.

I was thinking more Porsche Cayenne/LR Defender 90. One can hope.

 

[Autolycus]

2. Downtime means the factory is shutdown, employees are temporarily laid off and/or assigned to other temporary tasks or training. Physical changes are made to the production line (new equipment, tooling, etc) to support whatever design or manufacturing process changes are being revised. It typically affects all vehicles moving forward, but not necessarily. For a hypothetical example, LFP revisions would affect all, but 2nd row captains chairs would only affect those with that option.

There's very little chance they would lay people off because of a planned shutdown. Some will be assigned tasks related to whatever changes are happening, some will be assigned other tasks, and others will be forced to take some paid leave or possibly some unpaid leave. Laying people off has costs that often far exceed the cost of paying people to not work for a couple weeks.

 

[Zoidz]

There's very little chance they would lay people off because of a planned shutdown. Some will be assigned tasks related to whatever changes are happening, some will be assigned other tasks, and others will be forced to take some paid leave or possibly some unpaid leave. Laying people off has costs that often far exceed the cost of paying people to not work for a couple weeks.

I've done engineering shutdown work for numerous manufacturing companies that are our clients for the past 30 years. Some do temporary layoffs.

 

[Autolycus]

I've done engineering shutdown work for numerous manufacturing companies that are our clients for the past 30 years. Some do temporary layoffs.

Then I stand corrected. I work in employee benefits, and temporary layoffs just seem like such a classic example of something that would have visible savings but also obvious costs that outweigh the savings in the long run. I would at least expect them to be smarter and use the word "furlough" instead of "temporary layoff' if they know they'll be keeping the employees after the temporary shutdown. But anyway, this a total sidetrack that I shouldn't have started in this thread! Appreciate your polite correction!

 

[oskeei]

It's comical how everyone wants an open network standard such as CCS, yet it's such a pathetic garbage network that even the big boys decided to bail on it. It didn't work, no money to be made either.

The CCS/NACS is just a commitment (engagement ring) much can happen between now and 2025 when they get hitched.

Would not be surprised to see it pushed back or for things to go backwards. I would love access to tesla network and ease of the smaller plug but net getting hopes up.

 

[Zoidz]

Then I stand corrected. I work in employee benefits, and temporary layoffs just seem like such a classic example of something that would have visible savings but also obvious costs that outweigh the savings in the long run. I would at least expect them to be smarter and use the word "furlough" instead of "temporary layoff' if they know they'll be keeping the employees after the temporary shutdown. But anyway, this a total sidetrack that I shouldn't have started in this thread! Appreciate your polite correction!

We have a steel mill as a customer. Sometimes the larger shutdown projects can take 2-4 weeks just for installation and testing/startup before production is started again. They will give the hourly employees the option of temporary reassignment, paid vacation, unpaid time off or layoff depending on the department and job role. It may be due to employment contracts and/or state laws.

 

[junkanoo]

Well, that's just short-sighted, and yes I'll say it: ignorant.

Ask yourself, why did Rivian bother with the RAN in the first place?
Do you really think that the primary purpose was to copy Tesla and replicate Tesla's proprietary supercharger network?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, there are other business reasons here that you haven't thought about?

At least half of Rivian's business plan is centered around delivery vehicles and being a turnkey supplier of delivery vehicle solutions. That means, in part, fleet charging. That means they need to be able to supply purpose-built chargers for fleets. That means they need to design and manufacture their own DC fast chargers. And as long as they're doing that, it makes sense to leverage this investment by deploying some DC fast chargers for use by the general public. Not only do they get some advertisement and provide a benefit to Rivian owners, but they also get a HUGE amount of data on Rivians, on how their chargers works, and (eventually) on all the other EV models on the market. The incremental cost of deploying a public network is minor, while the payback is immense. And the payback is even better now that the government is going to fund part of the RAN deployment.

snip ...

No need for name-calling. Simply state your viewpoint.

Are you sure that Amazon is even using Rivian's fast-chargers? This leaked photo doesn't make that at all obvious ....

 

[Zoidz]

No need for name-calling. Simply state your viewpoint.

Are you sure that Amazon is even using Rivian's fast-chargers? This leaked photo doesn't make that at all obvious ....

Thinking about it, Amazon does not need the expense of DCFC? They can likely get a full charge overnight on L2 chargers.

 

[VSG]

No need for name-calling. Simply state your viewpoint.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant

Labeling an opinion as ignorant is not the same as calling a person ignorant. Failing to understand the difference? Take your choice ...

Are you sure that Amazon is even using Rivian's fast-chargers?

http://www.rivian.com/fleet

I didn't make any claims or say anything at all about Amazon - I was specifically talking about Rivian's business plan for fleet solutions, which includes fleet charging solutions like I described. I don't know specifics about the Rivian deal with Amazon and everything that entails, but it's clear that both AC and DC charging solutions are part of their strategy for fleet delivery vehicle sales. The RAN fits in with that at the strategic level.

 

[emoore]

I'm not sure where Rivian is going with their RAN network either. If they want to put in RAN chargers out in the forest where they get an occasional use on weekends, that's just stupid. With that, nobody has heard of RAN either. Maybe they can draft an agreement with Tesla, but if I was Tesla I'd decline any offer.

It's comical how everyone wants an open network standard such as CCS, yet it's such a pathetic garbage network that even the big boys decided to bail on it. It didn't work, no money to be made either.

So you think the issues were with the CCS connector and not the companies running them?

 

[Stack]

Being dedicated to building out the RAN network, can still happen while switching to NACS, we have already seen DCFC providers saying they will incorporate NACS along side CCS… but let’s face the simple fact. CCS1 is dead. It is now obsolete. With over 80% of EV’s market share being onboard with NACS.

Spot on and a bit disappointing if they don't switch to NACS. No real reason they can't build out the RAN network with NACS, which would make for a nice add-on, but something tells me Rivian isn't looking at this the correct way and it will end up being their achilles heal and huge deterrent for owners and want to be owners.

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