Rivian Guide Contacted Finally! (For Real) ?

[hamberderz]

Damn.... and here I thought that I was "impatient" waiting for my L.E. R1T that's not likely coming until late Winter, early spring 2022. So I bought a '21 Toyota RAV4-Prime PHEV to tide me over for give-or-take a year's time.

Ultimately, I don't want to base my life around Rivian. I love the truck in concept. I am frustrated by lack of information, but they are trying to mass produce EVs, not an easy logistical problem to solve. I get it. I look at it this way, if I move into a vehicle I am happy with right now (which would be the Rivian if available), then I am less frustrated by delays, and can make a more reasonable and sound purchase decision if/when Rivian actually starts delivering these. There are some things I would love to have that look like they are being delayed in the first iteration that hopefully will be in the second... like the roof and tailgate options for example. Even flat towing. While financially ( especially if I do purchase the LE version) this isn't the best choice, long term, it might be as I will be less inclined to compromise.

Long story short, I pick up my Tesla M3P on Monday. And, I hope, I am convinced to trade it in for the Rivian later this fall.

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[888tom888]

OK, off topic but somewhat related. I need your help.

In my frustration, prior to the guide reaching out, I decided to hedge bets by pre-ordering a model 3 performance. The wait was 1-12 weeks for that. Since I did that, Rivian guides reached out and re-energized my excitement about Rivian, even though there isn't really more actual data to go off. Well, it turns out the model 3 performance is ready after 1 week, not 12. I am still bullish on Rivian. If I knew I would get the R1T in August/September, I would just cancel the Tesla and wait. Since we don't know for sure, I am debating if I should go ahead and get the M3P and then trade that in when the R1T is ready. I guess it really comes down to whether or not I think the M3P will depreciate faster than my current trade in of equivalent value. Anyone have thoughts/wisdom to share? I have also reached out to my guide to see if more information can be shared as a result but am not holding my breath on that one.

I have a 2019 M3P and used it is worth more than I owe on it. If I sold it today, I would make money on driving a car for two years and 26000 miles here in CA. There is an acute used car shortage and Tesla's keep their value extremely well. Enjoy the Tesla, see how the Rivians look and perform once the early pioneers get theirs and drive them for a bit. And if your game, trade yours or sell it and hop into your new RIvian. That's my plan..

 

[Inkedsphynx]

In addition to all the usual factors that affect supply/demand in the automotive sales world, I would caution everyone to remember that once the chip shortages run out the inventory for new cars will increase which will mean less people buying used for lack of availability on something new. When that happens used car equity will probably fall back to how it was (or close to it) pre-pandemic-induced shortages.

You could see that equity vanish quickly. It might be wise to keep a close eye on it and sell/trade as the curve turns, like you would a house rather than wait too long.

 

[hamberderz]

In addition to all the usual factors that affect supply/demand in the automotive sales world, I would caution everyone to remember that once the chip shortages run out the inventory for new cars will increase which will mean less people buying used for lack of availability on something new. When that happens used car equity will probably fall back to how it was (or close to it) pre-pandemic-induced shortages.

You could see that equity vanish quickly. It might be wise to keep a close eye on it and sell/trade as the curve turns, like you would a house rather than wait too long.

Good advice for sure. I looked at it like this. My current truck is worth x amount in today’s market. Based on that, I can, right now, trade even up for a Tesla M3P. Which serves me better right now? M3P. When will the Rivian ship to customers ? Not sure. Which will be worth more when Rivian ships to customers? Not sure. So, I went with what I did know. Right now, M3P fits my needs better. It is possible if/when I trade for the R1T I’ll be financially better off, or not. I doubt the difference will be that much to split hairs over. If the M3P drops a lot in value, chances are my truck would have as well.

 

[loudOrange]

Agree with you here. Not only is the communication about the delivery vague, confusing, frustrating, but the actual details of the vehicle itself are not being shared and what is shared is dribbling out painfully slow. The vehicle delivers in less than a month and we still do not have confirmed info about the vehicle like EPA rating, safety ratings, etc. No one has test driven a vehicle, if that even happens, before delivery.

Here's a direct implication of Rivian's refusal to provide even basic information about delivery timing.

Wire costs have almost doubled over the last couple of weeks.

For anyone who needs to run new 240v wire that can handle the amperage recommended by Rivian, the cost difference is significant. I just paid to run a new 240v line 120 feet, and will have to do another shorter one in another house.

I know, first world problem, and in the scheme of things - $75 - 80k vehicle - only a couple thousand dollars more expensive.

If I had a date certain - or even in a range that is a good bit tighter than "sometime before June 2022" I'd be able to plan a whole lot better - and likely save some serious dollars. Dollars which could be used to buy other Rivian accessories, or support the local food bank, or whatever.

Net is Rivian knows a lot more than they are sharing. Its decision to not share any useful information is selfish and dumb.

Note - got a call from a nice and helpful CS person Thursday apologizing for continued lack of information re delivery, and asking if I had seen the "story" about the camp kitchen.

I don't give a rat's behind about the camp kitchen.

Rivian has chosen to share information about its hugely expensive camp kitchen to distract us from the much more important issue of when we're going to get our damn trucks - and the fact that they know a lot more than they are sharing.

Note 2 - With a January 2019 order that can pick up the truck in NH, NY, or Illinois, I'd be a lot less pissed off if corporate Rivian - not some CS staffer - provided an explanation re how they are going to fill orders, and what is delaying deliveries.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Here's a direct implication of Rivian's refusal to provide even basic information about delivery timing.

Wire costs have almost doubled over the last couple of weeks.

To play devil's advocate, Rivian isn't holding you back from your electrical upgrade. You could run the wiring and prep for your EVSE now, or you could have done it last month, or six months ago...

Rivian isn't holding you back in the slightest, in that regard.

 

[loudOrange]

To play devil's advocate, Rivian isn't holding you back from your electrical upgrade. You could run the wiring and prep for your EVSE now, or you could have done it last month, or six months ago...

Rivian isn't holding you back in the slightest, in that regard.

Hello Commodore - well, no.

1. Amps - didn't know until March/April what the amperage would be. Don't recall the specific date, but it was not six months ago.
2. Wire gauge is driven by amps - so couldn't spec the job until we knew amps.
3. In one house that requires a panel upgrade.
4. Finding an electrician in NH and the Finger Lakes in NY is a major challenge; many are booked months in advance due to home renos from buyers moving in.
5. Getting permits and approval is also a process, and while not as backed up as electricians, can't get it scheduled until we have licensed electrician on the job.
6. My daily driver will need some major work soon - as in several thousand dollars worth. While I love it - Audi A4 Avant manual with chip exhaust intake and lots of other upgrades - it is rapidly approaching late middle age. Based on Rivian's communications, I had assumed/hoped I'd be in my R1T in Q3 or early Q4 2021. Now, the only definitive word from Rivian I have is I'll get it by next June 30.
7. Even that date is suspect, as Rivian has fudged its delivery dates multiple times already, giving me little confidence in the 6/30/22 date.

The larger point here is Rivian knows where I am - and you are - in the delivery order. They probably know - within a range a lot tighter than between now and a year from now, which is what they've told me so far - when they will deliver my R1T.

If nothing else, they could tell me - and you, and everyone else - where we sit in the delivery schedule, and what that schedule is based on. We could then use that information

For some unfathomable reason, Rivian has chosen to not do that.

More information would allow us to better estimate/consider/plan for - using whatever logic or forecast or intuition you may have:

1. what to do and when to do it if your Rivian is replacing another vehicle,
2. for those where this will be a major financial commitment, how to plan for that given everything else you have to pay for,
3. for those who live in different places at different times of the year, where you might get delivery,

We all get the supply chain issue; our favorite pub has been out of chicken wings many a day, causing much consternation. We are all okay with waiting - heck I've been waiting for 30 months.

it is disappointing indeed that Rivian isn't being transparent. It is also not smart as it will damage a brand they have been working assiduously to build.

Companies that anticipate and prevent customers' problems can be wildly successful.

Companies that create problems for their customers, not so much.

I'd love to be driving my R1T today, tomorrow, or next month. Rivian's lack of concern about the problems they are creating for their ardent supporters make it increasingly doubtful that will happen.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

1. Amps - didn't know until March/April what the amperage would be. Don't recall the specific date, but it was not six months ago.

I don't think that's true. We've known for a long time (over a year) that 48A was the peak for L2 charging.

2. Wire gauge is driven by amps - so couldn't spec the job until we knew amps.

You don't have to limit wire gauge based on the EVSE. All that matters is that it's big enough to support the load. You could have confidently ran 6 AWG and even if you only ended up installing a 40A EVSE you'd be fine.

3. In one house that requires a panel upgrade.
4. Finding an electrician in NH and the Finger Lakes in NY is a major challenge; many are booked months in advance due to home renos from buyers moving in.
5. Getting permits and approval is also a process, and while not as backed up as electricians, can't get it scheduled until we have licensed electrician on the job.

None of this is Rivian's fault, or problem. You could have started prepping earlier. That is entirely on you.

6. My daily driver will need some major work soon - as in several thousand dollars worth. While I love it - Audi A4 Avant manual with chip exhaust intake and lots of other upgrades - it is rapidly approaching late middle age. Based on Rivian's communications, I had assumed/hoped I'd be in my R1T in Q3 or early Q4 2021. Now, the only definitive word from Rivian I have is I'll get it by next June 30.

I assume you have a LE reservation? This is the first gripe you've expressed that has any credibility, imo. It is unfortunate that Rivian has delayed and is also extending the time needed to do LE deliveries. I empathize with your pain on this point.

7. Even that date is suspect, as Rivian has fudged its delivery dates multiple times already, giving me little confidence in the 6/30/22 date.

Yes, I feel this one strongly, as well. I have a Max pack reservation, and I have rapidly diminishing confidence that I'll be offered a Rivian delivery in 2022. I have reservations for GMC Hummer EV Truck and F-150 Lightning, as well... First to call/email me to finalize an order will most likely get my money.

The larger point here is Rivian knows where I am - and you are - in the delivery order. They probably know - within a range a lot tighter than between now and a year from now, which is what they've told me so far - when they will deliver my R1T.

I used to think the same, but now I wonder if Rivian really doesn't know how their production will ramp up. I'm not sure if it's concerns about labor, quality, service, or component availability; but Rivian is clearly apprehensive to share any forecasts with us. Perhaps once they've got some production under their belt they will open up more and provide estimates to reservation holders?

If nothing else, they could tell me - and you, and everyone else - where we sit in the delivery schedule, and what that schedule is based on. We could then use that information

For some unfathomable reason, Rivian has chosen to not do that.

More information would allow us to better estimate/consider/plan for - using whatever logic or forecast or intuition you may have:

1. what to do and when to do it if your Rivian is replacing another vehicle,
2. for those where this will be a major financial commitment, how to plan for that given everything else you have to pay for,
3. for those who live in different places at different times of the year, where you might get delivery,

We all get the supply chain issue; our favorite pub has been out of chicken wings many a day, causing much consternation. We are all okay with waiting - heck I've been waiting for 30 months.

it is disappointing indeed that Rivian isn't being transparent. It is also not smart as it will damage a brand they have been working assiduously to build.

Companies that anticipate and prevent customers' problems can be wildly successful.

Companies that create problems for their customers, not so much.

I'd love to be driving my R1T today, tomorrow, or next month. Rivian's lack of concern about the problems they are creating for their ardent supporters make it increasingly doubtful that will happen.

If there are too many unknowns, than the information is not useful. I agree that receiving NO information is equally bad. There is a balance that needs to be achieved, and Rivian has not yet found that balance.

 

[n8dgr8]

To play devil's advocate, Rivian isn't holding you back from your electrical upgrade. You could run the wiring and prep for your EVSE now, or you could have done it last month, or six months ago...

Rivian isn't holding you back in the slightest, in that regard.

50’ of 6/3 wire is under $300 at Home Depot. Yes that is 3x what I paid 6 years ago but is still affordable.

 

[DuckTruck]

I bought a case of beer and a bottle of Prozac…. ?

Greg,

That sounds great, but if I did that, I'd be worried about what I'd do next week. ?

 

[SANZC02]

50’ of 6/3 wire is under $300 at Home Depot. Yes that is 3x what I paid 6 years ago but is still affordable.

Links removed to prevent confusion….

 

[TXR1S]

Off topic but for future readers -

I don’t believe 6/3 is NEC compliant for an EVSE install.

An electric car charger is a “continuous load” per NEC 625.14. This means for a 48A load you need wire rated for 60A (before accounting for heat de-rating).

6/3 NM-B “romex” is rated for 55A.

Yes there are a million chargers installed with 6/3 romex.

I believe an affordable workaround is 6-6-6-6 SER cable but it depends on the version of the code that applies to you.

Disclaimer: I’m not an electrician but this is what was explained to me by a master electrician and seems to match up with the codes.

 

[SANZC02]

Off topic but for future readers -

I don’t believe 6/3 is NEC compliant for an EVSE install.

An electric car charger is a “continuous load” per NEC 625.14. This means for a 48A load you need wire rated for 60A (before accounting for heat de-rating).

6/3 NM-B “romex” is rated for 55A.

Yes there are a million chargers installed with 6/3 romex.

I believe an affordable workaround is 6-6-6-6 SER cable but it depends on the version of the code that applies to you.

Disclaimer: I’m not an electrician but this is what was explained to me by a master electrician and seems to match up with the codes.

I am not an electrician either but my understanding is it depends on the temperature rating of the wire. If it is rated at 90C you should be able to go up to 75 AMPS.

If there are any electricians on the forum, maybe they can speak to this better than I am able to.

 

[TXR1S]

I am not an electrician either but my understanding is it depends on the temperature rating of the wire. If it is rated at 90C you should be able to go up to 75 AMPS.

If there are any electricians on the forum, maybe they can speak to this better than I am able to.

You’re absolutely right- NM-B uses the 60 degree column.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Off topic but for future readers -

I don’t believe 6/3 is NEC compliant for an EVSE install.

An electric car charger is a “continuous load” per NEC 625.14. This means for a 48A load you need wire rated for 60A (before accounting for heat de-rating).

6/3 NM-B “romex” is rated for 55A.

Yes there are a million chargers installed with 6/3 romex.

I believe an affordable workaround is 6-6-6-6 SER cable but it depends on the version of the code that applies to you.

Disclaimer: I’m not an electrician but this is what was explained to me by a master electrician and seems to match up with the codes.

6/3 meets code under many circumstances. NEC allows you to round up when a load calc is in between breaker sizes.

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