Rivian and LG Batteries....

AndroidAppBundle

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It sounds like Rivian is using Samsung and LG batteries. LG batteries have been the root cause for Chevrolet recalling every single vehicle made, along with Hyundai having to recall the Kona.

Has Rivian disclosed how their battery design with LG is different? Have they talked about how they will avoid the issues that nearly every vehicle has dealt with (some having more issues, obviously)?

This latest news is really disappointing; everyday my suspicion grows; LG is going to be the reason for another R1T/R1S delay (along with other vehicles like Lightning, Hummer EV, etc).

GM estimates the recall will cost them 1.8 billion, and are seeking compensation from LG. The issue is big enough that more people are questioning the safety of EV's, and especially the models plagued with the worst issues.

https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-lg-chem-battery-supply/

Who's Making Those EV Batteries That Are Catching on Fire?
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-08-24/who-s-making-those-ev-batteries-catching-fire
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manitou202

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It sounds like Rivian is using Samsung and LG batteries. LG batteries have been the root cause for Chevrolet recalling every single vehicle made, along with Hyundai having to recall the Kona.

Has Rivian disclosed how their battery design with LG is different? Have they talked about how they will avoid the issues that nearly every vehicle has dealt with (some having more issues, obviously)?

This latest news is really disappointing; everyday my suspicion grows; LG is going to be the reason for another R1T/R1S delay (along with other vehicles like Lightning, Hummer EV, etc).

GM estimates the recall will cost them 1.8 billion, and are seeking compensation from LG. The issue is big enough that more people are questioning the safety of EV's, and especially the models plagued with the worst issues.

https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-lg-chem-battery-supply/

Who's Making Those EV Batteries That Are Catching on Fire?
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-08-24/who-s-making-those-ev-batteries-catching-fire
The Audi E-tron uses LG batteries and hasn't had a fire that I'm aware of. They don't sell a lot of E-trons in the US, but they are one of the top selling EV's in Europe. It's possible that Hyundai and GM were using a lower cost design. I'm not sure who else is using LG today.

However, there will always be a risk of fire, just like with a gasoline powered vehicle.
 
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AndroidAppBundle

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6k Etron EV sales in 2020. 30k Model X sales in 2020 (have these stats handy to remind us of how finite the size of the EV market exists for 80k SUV/truck models. I am really interested to see how Rivian, Hummer and Ford change this)

Since we don't have much information to work with regarding the Rivian brand; it almost seems necessary for Rivian to proactively reassure customers that they recognize the problems other brands have had with certain suppliers, and that Rivian is not impacted, and remains committed to bringing safe vehicles to market.

I don't think Rivian will do that, as their communication is terrible.

The Audi E-tron uses LG batteries and hasn't had a fire that I'm aware of. They don't sell a lot of E-trons in the US, but they are one of the top selling EV's in Europe. It's possible that Hyundai and GM were using a lower cost design. I'm not sure who else is using LG today.

However, there will always be a risk of fire, just like with a gasoline powered vehicle.
 

jjwolf120

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Has Rivian disclosed how their battery design with LG is different?
To start with, they are using 2170 cylidrical batteries instead of pouch style batteries. Second, what has been announced, is that Samsung is providing the batteries. I haven't heard anything about LG suppling batteries to Rivian.
 

electruck

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Rivian has only officially announced that they are sourcing 2170 cells from SDI. There were media reports several years ago based on import records that Rivian had received a shipment of batteries from LG. There is zero evidence that any batteries from LG are being used in production vehicles.

Also, the LG batteries catching fire are pouch style, not cylindrical 2170 so even if Rivian were using 2170 cells from LG, they are not the same style of battery as those catching fire.

Much ado about nothing here.
 

DucRider

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Rivian has only officially announced that they are sourcing 2170 cells from SDI. There were media reports several years ago based on import records that Rivian had received a shipment of batteries from LG. There is zero evidence that any batteries from LG are being used in production vehicles.

Also, the LG batteries catching fire are pouch style, not cylindrical 2170 so even if Rivian were using 2170 cells from LG, they are not the same style of battery as those catching fire.

Much ado about nothing here.
The post @electruck is referring to is a quintessential example of FUD - whatever the motive.
 

manitou202

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6k Etron EV sales in 2020. 30k Model X sales in 2020 (have these stats handy to remind us of how finite the size of the EV market exists for 80k SUV/truck models. I am really interested to see how Rivian, Hummer and Ford change this)

Since we don't have much information to work with regarding the Rivian brand; it almost seems necessary for Rivian to proactively reassure customers that they recognize the problems other brands have had with certain suppliers, and that Rivian is not impacted, and remains committed to bringing safe vehicles to market.

I don't think Rivian will do that, as their communication is terrible.
50k E-tron sales in 2020 alone. The E-tron outsells the Model X and S globally.

https://electrek.co/2021/01/12/audi-sells-almost-50000-e-tron-electric-suvs-2020/
 
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AndroidAppBundle

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https://insideevs.com/news/464541/audi-etron-sales-improved-us-2020/

I don’t think Rivian will be delivering vehicles globally for quite some time, especially not at the volume Audi is capable of (e.g. when will Rivian be selling in Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, United Kingdom, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Brazil, etc).

The 2020 Model X / Etron customer base in the USA was just 36,000 customers.

Re: battery construction

It looks like Rivian has their own custom battery pack that houses the 2170 batteries. The 2170 battery can still catch fire, depending on the implementation, right? There seems to be more to Model X/Y’s battery construction than just switching to 2170 batteries

https://insideevs.com/news/500474/rivian-samsung-sdi-battery-supplier/
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/heres-what-tesla-will-put-in-its-new-batteries/



50k E-tron sales in 2020 alone. The E-tron outsells the Model X and S globally.

https://electrek.co/2021/01/12/audi-sells-almost-50000-e-tron-electric-suvs-2020/
 

Gearhead500

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https://insideevs.com/news/464541/audi-etron-sales-improved-us-2020/

I don’t think Rivian will be delivering vehicles globally for quite some time, especially not at the volume Audi is capable of (e.g. when will Rivian be selling in Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, United Kingdom, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Brazil, etc).

The 2020 Model X / Etron customer base in the USA was just 36,000 customers.

Re: battery construction

It looks like Rivian has their own custom battery pack that houses the 2170 batteries. The 2170 battery can still catch fire, depending on the implementation, right? There seems to be more to Model X/Y’s battery construction than just switching to 2170 batteries

https://insideevs.com/news/500474/rivian-samsung-sdi-battery-supplier/
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/heres-what-tesla-will-put-in-its-new-batteries/
R1S holder or not, people are starting to ignore your post since it’s full of bad info. Just letting you know
 
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AndroidAppBundle

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So 2170 batteries cannot catch fire, regardless of the implementation? I am reading about a 4000 series battery from Tesla that is their next-gen battery, which is contactless (for some sort of tab component, of which component this is - i have no clue). This contactless battery technology is supposed to be better?

This is a curiousity in to the construction of a 75k+ purchase. I would totally not get a Audi GT Etron if it caught fire. The EV market seems to be very.....early stage - iPhone 2 kind of era. We’re going to see rapid iteration in tech. We’re going to see serious design flaws across the entire EV market. Each brand is making their own mistakes and failures.

The risk is massive. For us as consumers taking ownership of these lithium ion Tonka trucks; for Rivian as a brand. Look at Lordstown - very promising company. Vehicle flamed out on road. Hyundai and GM....companies that are no strangers to manufacturing vehicles....impacted.

A part of me really wants to remind myself to be grounded in reality. This is a $75k purchase. This 75k can be worth... $##k in no time. This isn’t a typical automobile purchase. I am not buying the “Apple” of automobiles (Tesla). I am a picky Android user. And I am picking at this brand and really wondering what I am getting.

The way I read the battery market is 2170 batteries are current generation, and the 4000 series battery is supposed to be the new big deal?

The cost of these expensive EV’s is so great. The price to be paid to be an early adopter can be so great. The depreciation of these bleeding edge toys can be significant. The payoff for holding out on some of these choices can be huge.

https://www.torquenews.com/8113/why-tesla-tabless-battery-so-good

Tesla makes their own batteries, and seems to be leading the charge on battery development. A lot of brands seem to be sourcing brands from third parties - and just building the frame, charging, and electric motors (and designing the exterior/interior). Basically - I wonder if Tesla is just going to end up leading permanently; with their vertically integrated development and manufacturing.

Rivian is historic at this point - and it could be a historic flop. Or it could be huge. I watch their YouTube channel - and this is just pure speculation here; but Rivian does not seem to draw many views. There are not a lot of consumers chomping at the bit - dying to hear about Rivian developments. I am here. I like the brand - what I’ve seen of it. I’ve given them a free loan. I’ve watched them. I’ve watched the old-school competition. I’ve watched Tesla. I am ready to spend this kind of money - but seriously being picky - due to past experience with bleeding edge tech.

R1S holder or not, people are starting to ignore your post since it’s full of bad info. Just letting you know
 

SeaGeo

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Ok, back up.
1. Please cite a reliable source that says Rivian is using LG.
2. Please provide a reliable source that *all* LG produced batteries are problematic. What are the companies saying is the root cause of those issues, and not others?
3. What is your risk expose to an EV catching fire today? It's on you to evaluate that risk.
4. From a financial risk standpoint, because it appears you are more concerned about cost than safety, please show an example where a manufacturer hasn't fixed the vehicles at increased risk? Bolts are under recall to fully replace the batteries. Kona's already did. e trons are seemingly totally fine. German variant MEB vehicles seem totally fine.
 

JeremyP

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So just wait a couple more years and see how they do? There should be someone doing a full vehicle teardown by then.
 

DucRider

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Tesla makes their own batteries
Another piece of misinformation.

The US Gigafactory has Panasonic leasing space and making them, it counts toward the bottom line for Panasonic, and Tesla blamed Panasonic for shortfalls during the M3 ramp up. The 2170 is produced in Nevada for the US made Model 3 and Y, the 1865 for the S/X are imported from Japan.
Panasonic is planning on building another production line in the Gigafactory in 2022 according the their annual report (and they will be building prototype 4680's which doesn't bode well for the Semi/Cybertruck 2022 production if they are still at the prototype stage)

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For the MIC models CATL is the main battery supplier.
 
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