Rivian and LG Batteries....

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They don’t let batteries of certain sizes in certain places on an airplane for a reason. This was news as time went on, right? We learned...oh - a cell phone could maybe.....take a plane down.

LG batteries are the common theme with a lot of fires, and batteries in general that have this “tab contact” component seem more prone to the fires (and the root cause for almost all the EV fires we see).

There is going to be some mediocre tech and components. There are going to be some serious fire hazards with EV’s. Some brands and designs are going to have more issues. Fires are bad. My garage is right below my living space. So...yeah. I am pretty curious how this stuff unfolds.

Rivian is supposed to be battery brand agnostic (Samsung SDI or LG) from the article I quoted before. This implies the use of “any battery we can get” purchasing - which is fine. But I am still curious what choices are being made. What do we know?

How do we know Rivian isn’t making the same design failures? We don’t really have these kind of nerding out deep-dives discussions going on anywhere.

I like the looks of Rivian as much as they next, but still evaluating my 75k purchase - constantly. Cause a lot of companies want to sell me a $75k EV in 2022....and I got some choices to make. Based on design, styling, range, utility, manufacturing, paint quality, driving dynamics, all kinds of things. It is $75k

Ok, back up.
1. Please cite a reliable source that says Rivian is using LG.
2. Please provide a reliable source that *all* LG produced batteries are problematic. What are the companies saying is the root cause of those issues, and not others?
3. What is your risk expose to an EV catching fire today? It's on you to evaluate that risk.
4. From a financial risk standpoint, because it appears you are more concerned about cost than safety, please show an example where a manufacturer hasn't fixed the vehicles at increased risk? Bolts are under recall to fully replace the batteries. Kona's already did. e trons are seemingly totally fine. German variant MEB vehicles seem totally fine.
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SeaGeo

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They don’t let batteries of certain sizes in certain places on an airplane for a reason. This was news as time went on, right? We learned...oh - a cell phone could maybe.....take a plane down.

LG batteries are the common theme with a lot of fires, and batteries in general that have this “tab contact” component seem more prone to the fires (and the root cause for almost all the EV fires we see).

There is going to be some mediocre tech and components. There are going to be some serious fire hazards with EV’s. Some brands and designs are going to have more issues. Fires are bad. My garage is right below my living space. So...yeah. I am pretty curious how this stuff unfolds.

Rivian is supposed to be battery brand agnostic (Samsung SDI or LG) from the article I quoted before. This implies the use of “any battery we can get” purchasing - which is fine. But I am still curious what choices are being made. What do we know?

How do we know Rivian isn’t making the same design failures? We don’t really have these kind of nerding out deep-dives discussions going on anywhere.

I like the looks of Rivian as much as they next, but still evaluating my 75k purchase - constantly. Cause a lot of companies want to sell me a $75k EV in 2022....and I got some choices to make. Based on design, styling, range, utility, manufacturing, paint quality, driving dynamics, all kinds of things. It is $75k
Your airplane reference isn't really applicable here. Not sure why what point you're trying to make with it.

Not all LG batteries are a common theme. The batteries used in the Bolt and Kona are. Even if Rivian was using LG sourced batteries, you have no reason they would use the same batteries as those two models. In fact, you literally don't know if LG hasn't addressed the issue on all batteries developed after the relatively ancient Kona and Bolt.

If you're concerned about a fire in your garage due to an EV, don't park the car in your garage. I understand the concern. But it's not an isolated risk to any one battery manufacturer.

You aren't having a nerding out deep dive. None of what you've posted is a deep dive. You're taking several leaps of assumptions to imply that there's reason to believe that 1. LG has a company wide manufacturing issue without proof that results in significantly more risk than other battery producers. 2. Rivian somehow hasn't done their due dilligence with their supplier. Again, without any proof. 3. You're suggesting that Rivian is sourcing from LG, despite confirmation that they're using Samsung to manufacture their cells, and your initial source literally says the idea that LG would supply their batteries was a rumor.

So you didn't address question 1 or 2 I posed. Because you have no reliable information regarding either. I don't particularly care if you buy a Rivian or any other car. Your concerns seem to be cenetered around EVs in general because you are afraid that batteries post a significant risk that's greater than an ICE. But you seem to also be under the opinion that Tesla does not have the same risk. So it sounds like you should buy a Tesla. Enjoy. They're good cars.
 

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Speaking as a former Bolt EV owner with a car directly affected by it, the batteries are pouch batteries from LG, and they are used in VW/Audi, Hyundai, and Chevy. There has been a single VW ID.3 fire that I've seen reported, and only a few more Chevy Bolt spontaneous fires.

They have a torn anode and one other bit that I'm blanking on. They right now can only be found on X-ray or physical tear down which destroys the battery. It slightly changes the behavior of the battery enough to cause a thermal runaway.

So the 2170 batteries Rivian use wouldn't be directly related, nor as susceptible to this tearing because of how the pouch batteries are made.

i'll be honest with you, while it's concerning and sucks for Chevy the number of fires of Bolt's was a square root of a small number. Sure, it sucks. Unless there is something known behind the scenes that they're terrible at stating like 'this machine was out of alignment and QA didn't catch it for two months' or something terrible the number of fires to car sold ratio seems a bit low for that reaction. I appreciate the concern and all, but a stop manufacturing indicates to me maybe it is something like i described where LG was churning out shit batteries for a while. Might explain why they got thrown under the bus by GM.

Long winded way of saying 'not the same battery, shouldn't have the same concerns'
 

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maybe it is something like i described where LG was churning out shit batteries for a while. Might explain why they got thrown under the bus by GM.
I work for GM on the EV program. The issue as it was explained to me was exactly this. There was a defect in the LG manufacturing process and the fire risk is cumulative, meaning the more charge cycles you go through, the more likely for a fire. Thats why it wasnt discovered for a while, and also why the recall started with the older model year Bolts before expanding to the current model year as they found the issue was still present. With GM's ultium batteries coming next year im honestly surprised they are even bothering to do the battery swap on them instead of just a buyback but I dont make those decisions :)
 

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Wait a sec - I thought Rivian was using Samsung as the manufacturer of their batteries. Did they switch to LG (especially for the upcoming R1S) ?

P.s. I understand that the pouch style batteries are not being used by Rivian, so this specific issue (causing the pack fires in GM) will probably not happen to Rivian's batteries even if they are using LG. But everything I read said they will use Samsung.
 

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Trekkie

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I work for GM on the EV program. The issue as it was explained to me was exactly this. There was a defect in the LG manufacturing process and the fire risk is cumulative, meaning the more charge cycles you go through, the more likely for a fire. Thats why it wasnt discovered for a while, and also why the recall started with the older model year Bolts before expanding to the current model year as they found the issue was still present. With GM's ultium batteries coming next year im honestly surprised they are even bothering to do the battery swap on them instead of just a buyback but I dont make those decisions :)
wow.

I hope they get it fixed, I need to buy another bolt for my teenagers to run around in. The Fiat 500E range limit is starting to be a problem for them as they're in college now.
 

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Wait a sec - I thought Rivian was using Samsung as the manufacturer of their batteries. Did they switch to LG (especially for the upcoming R1S) ?

P.s. I understand that the pouch style batteries are not being used by Rivian, so this specific issue (causing the pack fires in GM) will probably not happen to Rivian's batteries even if they are using LG. But everything I read said they will use Samsung.
Samsung SDI is the cell manufacturer of record during the R1T/R1S launch phase according to the following article.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...sung-sdi-is-considering-illinois-for-us-plant

Don't think that you can simply swap cell manufacturers on a whim, without going through extensive validation testing. If there's discussions about Samsung building a factory near one of Rivian's factories, I would assume they're part of a long term supply strategy. Prismatic cells, which are basically pouch cells in a box, fell out of favor for several reasons - energy density and cost being key. The cylindrical cells also have better thermal and mechanical characteristics than prismatic type.
 
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LG battery factory is in Holland, Michigan. Just 2-3 hours north of Normal Illinois.

Not sure where the nearest Samsung factory is.

There are other articles that cite Rivian saying that the vehicles are designed to be battery agnostic - and meant to work with LG or Samsung - or even a completely different third party brand. That is why the R1x models were spotted in South Korea outside a LG battery plant (don't ask me why they didn't drive the vehicle from Normal to Holland.)



Samsung SDI is the cell manufacturer of record during the R1T/R1S launch phase according to the following article.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...sung-sdi-is-considering-illinois-for-us-plant

Don't think that you can simply swap cell manufacturers on a whim, without going through extensive validation testing. If there's discussions about Samsung building a factory near one of Rivian's factories, I would assume they're part of a long term supply strategy. Prismatic cells, which are basically pouch cells in a box, fell out of favor for several reasons - energy density and cost being key. The cylindrical cells also have better thermal and mechanical characteristics than prismatic type.
 

R_1_T

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LG battery factory is in Holland, Michigan. Just 2-3 hours north of Normal Illinois.

Not sure where the nearest Samsung factory is.

There are other articles that cite Rivian saying that the vehicles are designed to be battery agnostic - and meant to work with LG or Samsung - or even a completely different third party brand. That is why the R1x models were spotted in South Korea outside a LG battery plant (don't ask me why they didn't drive the vehicle from Normal to Holland.)
I'll just repeat this: Don't think that you can simply swap cell manufacturers on a whim, without going through extensive validation testing. Just because they "fit" mechanically, doesn't mean a darn thing if the alternate cell source sucks. Rivian has enough on their plate launching a new company - let alone securing, integrating, and testing a battery pack with cells from a different manufacturer.

It doesn't appear as though the Holland factory is currently producing cylindrical cells according to the following article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...ion-capacity-in-us-by-70-gwh/?sh=5b3fa235a026

In addition, the additional cell production capacity appears to be for GM, Lucid, Ford, and Stellantis. Note that there are no references to Rivian.
 

jtshaw

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I'll just repeat this: Don't think that you can simply swap cell manufacturers on a whim, without going through extensive validation testing. Just because they "fit" mechanically, doesn't mean a darn thing if the alternate cell source sucks. Rivian has enough on their plate launching a new company - let alone securing, integrating, and testing a battery pack with cells from a different manufacturer.

It doesn't appear as though the Holland factory is currently producing cylindrical cells according to the following article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...ion-capacity-in-us-by-70-gwh/?sh=5b3fa235a026

In addition, the additional cell production capacity appears to be for GM, Lucid, Ford, and Stellantis. Note that there are no references to Rivian.
Totally. They could switch to LG made 2170 cylindrical cells probably relatively quickly with validation testing (Tesla has at least CATL and Panasonic supply cells for example). They’d have to ground up build a whole new battery and potentially other associated systems to migrate to pouch cells.
 

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Totally. They could switch to LG made 2170 cylindrical cells probably relatively quickly with validation testing (Tesla has at least CATL and Panasonic supply cells for example). They’d have to ground up build a whole new battery and potentially other associated systems to migrate to pouch cells.
Even ignoring the complete pack redesign that would be required for pouch/prismatic cells, this would not be a quick round of testing for the simple fact you aren't going to cut corners on something so critical AND highly flammable. Even if LG were to supply 2170 cells, which operate at the same nominal voltage, the BMS settings will almost certainly have to be changed. This amounts to a complete revalidation of the new battery pack, including thermal/shock/charge/discharge etc. In addition, this has the potential to impact max charge rate, allowed depth of discharge, etc.

Another possible alternative is that the small & large packs utilize cells from another supplier, such as LG. The additional validation could be partially responsible for the delayed introduction of these other battery packs.
 

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They don’t let batteries of certain sizes in certain places on an airplane for a reason. This was news as time went on, right? We learned...oh - a cell phone could maybe.....take a plane down.

LG batteries are the common theme with a lot of fires, and batteries in general that have this “tab contact” component seem more prone to the fires (and the root cause for almost all the EV fires we see).

There is going to be some mediocre tech and components. There are going to be some serious fire hazards with EV’s. Some brands and designs are going to have more issues. Fires are bad. My garage is right below my living space. So...yeah. I am pretty curious how this stuff unfolds.
I just checked the TSA website and they don’t let you carry gasoline on a plane. Must be some bad stuff. The gasoline in your internal combustion engine explodes thousands of times a minute while running. What happens if your whole vehicle explodes next?

I’ve heard these gasoline companies are sourcing their gasoline from some very sketchy parts of the world, and they aren’t telling you that the stuff is so hazardous that breathing the exhaust fumes can kill you.

Im surprised more people aren’t curious about how this stuff unfolds
 

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I really do enjoy threads that are based entirely on speculative FUD with no evidence at all. @Rhidan's quip is pretty funny, and it's honestly not hard to combine that into a comment that's not so far off from the OP. There is, after all, a gas station right around the corner from the Rivian plan in Normal, and I'll bet there are many gas stations near their HQ in Irvine. They're much closer to Rivian than a battery plant that's in an entirely different state, so yeah... what about the gasoline that they could use in the trucks?!
 
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