Really Fast Charging! (BYD)

[Rivian Owner]

I'm jealous, did you see this article that appeared in the NY Times about BYD's Megawatt chargers that can give you a couple of hundred miles of range in 5 minutes? It is sad to think we, "the most advanced country on the planet" probably won't have this technology for several years. Sad to think this type of charging may make it to Europe before the US!

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/19/...le-chargers-china.html?searchResultPosition=1

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[BigSkies]

There's a few US projects for 1 MW chargers around EV semis. They are MASSIVELY expensive. Here's the one I know of that opened.

Just because it can be demonstrated doesn't make it economical. You'd probably be paying a couple dollars per kWh at MW speeds.

Just for a little context, a typical house might draw 1kW to 7kW most of the time. You might get up to 10-15kW if the AC and oven and dryer are running at the same time.

 

[ndmiller]

It is sad to think we, "the most advanced country on the planet" probably won't have this technology for several years. Sad to think this type of charging may make it to Europe before the US!

Not sure the US is the most advanced country on the planet anymore or even wants to be from my perspective. Just not investing in the future anymore, funding the past and going backwards to the way it was before in many aspects of life. May only last a few years, but it's where we are.

Even in Red state politicians where infrastructure money was put to great use (i.e. GA where I live and Rivian is building a plant), politicians still voted away EV and alternative fuel leadership and clawed back money that was being used in rural red states for things like healthcare. BUT the government just unfroze the $5 billion National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program and released revised guidance for states to access these funds. None of it makes sense, just a weird time to be alive

 

[Rivian Owner]

There's a few US projects for 1 MW chargers around EV semis. They are MASSIVELY expensive. Here's the one I know of that opened.

Just because it can be demonstrated doesn't make it economical. You'd probably be paying a couple dollars per kWh at MW speeds.

Just for a little context, a typical house might draw 1kW to 7kW most of the time. You might get up to 10-15kW if the AC and oven and dryer are running at the same time.

Yes, but economies of scale and practical experience tend to lower prices and improve technology, look at photovoltaics as an example. The first solar cells were more than a million dollars per watt and now you are below a dollar per watt for a solar panel.

I don't understand your analogy using a residence? I understand the power demands of a house, but we are talking about EV charging here. There are ways to provide a lot of current in a very short period of time if you are suggesting that the grid couldn't handle megawatt chargers.

 

[Zoidz]

Not sure the US is the most advanced country on the planet anymore or even wants to be from my perspective. Just not investing in the future anymore, funding the past and going backwards to the way it was before in many aspects of life. May only last a few years, but it's where we are.

Even in Red state politicians where infrastructure money was put to great use (i.e. GA where I live and Rivian is building a plant), politicians still voted away EV and alternative fuel leadership and clawed back money that was being used in rural red states for things like healthcare. BUT the government just unfroze the $5 billion National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program and released revised guidance for states to access these funds. None of it makes sense, just a weird time to be alive

Agree. Defunding research academia and National Science Foundation, and policies that alienate big brain researchers so much that they seek work in other countries is not advancing our technology, EV or otherwise.

 

[BigSkies]

Yes, but economies of scale and practical experience tend to lower prices and improve technology, look at photovoltaics as an example. The first solar cells were more than a million dollars per watt and now you are below a dollar per watt for a solar panel.

I don't understand your analogy using a residence? I understand the power demands of a house, but we are talking about EV charging here. There are ways to provide a lot of current in a very short period of time if you are suggesting that the grid couldn't handle megawatt chargers.

I don't work in the industry, but I've tried to read up on how charging works, and what the bottlenecks are.

I use residential for context because many people don't understand the difference between a watt, kilowatt, and megawatt.

I don't disagree that MW charging will be needed for things like heavy trucks.

I understand getting to MW speeds involves a multi-year utility connection process. Many distribution networks aren't set up to handle this amount of current.

Also, a Kwh delivered at higher speeds is more expensive than one delivered at lower speeds. And the difference is non-linear.

Out of curiosity, I looked up my utilities demand fees. A bank of 4x Megawatt chargers that run simultaneously for 15 minutes at any point in the month will generate about $70k/month in demand fees, before even paying for electricity. A bank of 4x 150kW chargers will generate about $10.5k in demand fees per month. I don't know exactly where the supply/demand curve falls, but I suspect most EV drivers wouldn't pay ~6.5x the price of a 150kW charger for MW charging.

I'm all for faster charging, but I don't think MW charging is practical for most applications.

The practical path that will speed up charging is the next generation of batteries. At least that's how they're marketed. While they won't charge faster than the underlying charger, they likely won't need to throttle charging speeds the same way as the battery gets closer to full.

 

[Rivian Owner]

I don't work in the industry, but I've tried to read up on how charging works, and what the bottlenecks are.

I use residential for context because many people don't understand the difference between a watt, kilowatt, and megawatt.

I don't disagree that MW charging will be needed for things like heavy trucks.

I understand getting to MW speeds involves a multi-year utility connection process. Many distribution networks aren't set up to handle this amount of current.

Also, a Kwh delivered at higher speeds is more expensive than one delivered at lower speeds. And the difference is non-linear.

Out of curiosity, I looked up my utilities demand fees. A bank of 4x Megawatt chargers that run simultaneously for 15 minutes at any point in the month will generate about $70k/month in demand fees, before even paying for electricity. A bank of 4x 150kW chargers will generate about $10.5k in demand fees per month. I don't know exactly where the supply/demand curve falls, but I suspect most EV drivers wouldn't pay ~6.5x the price of a 150kW charger for MW charging.

I'm all for faster charging, but I don't think MW charging is practical for most applications.

The practical path that will speed up charging is the next generation of batteries. At least that's how they're marketed. While they won't charge faster than the underlying charger, they likely won't need to throttle charging speeds the same way as the battery gets closer to full.

In the article they mention that different battery technology is required for the super fast charging to occur, so I'm assuming you agree with that part of the article? It sounds like BYD is well on their way to production scale of new battery technologies that can handle the rapid charge, while the US falls further behind with archaic thinking and policies.

As for the power delivered, as I said, there are ways to locally store power and provide a large burst of power over a short period of time. I would guess right now you have things like a smelting plant or a bauxite to aluminum plant that draws huge quantities of power in short bursts, so we basically already have the ability to do this now, the technology just hasn't been applied to our grid. Maybe some forward thinking with this type of technology could also eliminate brown-outs and grid failures?

You say you looked up your utility's fees, were those the residential rates or industrial rates? Just because those rates exist, changes to fee structure could just as easily favor faster charging as rates aren't always based on the utility's true cost to deliver power. You are assuming the grid infrastructure will be the same archaic system we have in place now, which again the article points out, the investments by the Chinese government in their grid are what will make this type of charging possible. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to live in China, but there are things they are doing right now that are leading their economy into the future while we seem to be stuck in the past.

 

[Great Gatsby]

I'm jealous, did you see this article that appeared in the NY Times about BYD's Megawatt chargers that can give you a couple of hundred miles of range in 5 minutes? It is sad to think we, "the most advanced country on the planet" probably won't have this technology for several years. Sad to think this type of charging may make it to Europe before the US!

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/19/...le-chargers-china.html?searchResultPosition=1

Several years? The way things are going, it'll probably be decades before we get anything like this while the rest of the world laps us in technology.

 

[Dark-Fx]

In the article they mention that different battery technology is required for the super fast charging to occur, so I'm assuming you agree with that part of the article? It sounds like BYD is well on their way to production scale of new battery technologies that can handle the rapid charge, while the US falls further behind with archaic thinking and policies.

CATL's 6C cells are still LFP, they are just constructed differently for better heat dissipation. Heat is the #1 reason charge rates can only be so fast.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

It's great that people are experimenting with EV batteries to improve them, but this doesn't translate to significant benefits in real-world use. Building mW chargers isn't going to be realistic because we don't have enough electrical capacity to service a broad rollout of them.

 

[Rivian Owner]

It's great that people are experimenting with EV batteries to improve them, but this doesn't translate to significant benefits in real-world use. Building mW chargers isn't going to be realistic because we don't have enough electrical capacity to service a broad rollout of them.

Exactly my point, and the point of the article, we haven't and we aren't making the investments needed, other countries are moving forward while we are stuck in pessimistic thought.

As for batteries, heat is the current (pun not intended) limitation based on the current technologies. Keep in mind 20 years ago the charging speeds and battery life we have now were just a dream. Whether better heat management or better battery chemistries with lower internal resistance, new technologies will be found that will enable much faster charge cycles. The question is who will control the markets?

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Exactly my point, and the point of the article, we haven't and we aren't making the investments needed, other countries are moving forward while we are stuck in pessimistic thought.

As for batteries, heat is the current (pun not intended) limitation based on the current technologies. Keep in mind 20 years ago the charging speeds and battery life we have now were just a dream. Whether better heat management or better battery chemistries with lower internal resistance, new technologies will be found that will enable much faster charge cycles. The question is who will control the markets?

You should not find too many people here who would argue against EV infrastructure investment. With that said, China doesn't have many mW chargers either, nor do they have a plan to deploy a large number of them. It's just not realistic, but that same cooling technology might make it so you can sustain a state of charge deeper into the pack.

 

[Ggunn9]

Many interesting comments and perspectives here. While we may not currently be able to benefit from Mh chargers we need to be working towards that. China is lapping us in terms of EV tech. BYD and Xiaomi are light years ahead of current US EVs and cost nearly half as much. If they ever make it to the US market (without tariffs) Rivian and Tesla are done.


Look at this Chinese made EV


The fact is the US is behind on tech. I was in the US Air Force for 20yrs and lived in Japan for 3 of those years 2003-2006. The fact is some tech I saw during that time STILL has not made it the USA.

We have got to start investing more into EV tech. I don't want a Red/Blue conversation but we are being left behind. The gap over the next 3-4 yrs may be too big to recover from.

Back to the mega watt charging-just because we can not use something now does not mean we should not invest into it. Example, the tires on your current vehicle were likely tested and raced in Formula One racing years ago. I'm sure they raced them at 200mph+ speeds for you to drive 70mph to your local grocery store.

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