Range Anxiety - Is it Real???

[RexRemus]

Range Anxiety - Is it real???

It’s real- and it’s spectacular!!

Range Anxiety Deniers HATE him!

Sponsored

 

[Dark-Fx]

The biggest anxiety for me is "dead" chargers seem all too common.

I can plan my route till I'm blue in the face, but if I get to the DCFC and it doesn't work, then I'm still boned.

I avoid places that only list a single charger on plug share unless I have no other options. I also check plug share just before I depart to see if people have reported them as broken or hard to use. So far I've never been stranded. Was a bit worried on the MI->FL road trip we took in the Hummer, but there were very few issues. The stupidly large pack definitely makes it easier to find alternatives in the rare situation that something isn't working as expected.

 

[Denver_Paulie]

Some calculations are better then others (A Better Route Planner is aptly named). But even more important is monitoring consumption as you progress along your route. Tesla has excellent tools for doing this. Rivian does not. It is my biggest disappointment with them. We'll have to figure out how to work around this shortcoming until such time, and if, Rivian rectifies this problem.

I agree with you on the Tesla ability to forecast remaining battery amount upon arriving at a location via the GPS. My Taycan does a half way decent job of that, but not as well as Tesla.

I have read most of the new Rivian road trip reviews on the board, and don't recall people complaining about the R1T's range forecasting ability. I have also seen Kyle's road trip videos, and he did not mention anything about any shortcomings. Maybe I missed something?

Obviously, monitoring consumption along the way is crucial to a successful road trip, but what is Rivian not providing? I have not seen a Rivian GPS screen to see what the GPS map shows for trip planning capability. Shouldn't it show the destination arrival point, the locations you need to charge to get there, and how long you need to charge at each charging spot? When I did my First Mile test drive I simply drove around for an hour, but really did not play with the navigation tools, so I am curious.

As @Gator42 said, range anxiety is spectacular if the navigation and consumption integration is not up to par.

 

[ajdelange]

I have read most of the new Rivian road trip reviews on the board, and don't recall people complaining about the R1T's range forecasting ability. I have also seen Kyle's road trip videos, and he did not mention anything about any shortcomings. Maybe I missed something?

I haven't seen much either. I sat right up and took notice when one of the YouTube reviewers went on about it quite extensively. It isn't just range forecasting that is at issue. It is the way in which the basic data about the car is (or really, is not) made available to the driver. It has been discussed some and I think the general conclusion is that Rivian has made the decision to "dumb down" the displays for the general American public as fuller information would just confuse them. I understand that (I had this discussion with my First Mile host and he agreed) but that some of us would like to have the option to understand what is going on in our trucks and would very much appreciate it if at least the option to see fuller data were accessible through an "advanced user" set of menus. This was the feedback I sent back to Rivian and my host said part of his job was to convey such feedback.

Obviously people aren't going to complain about something being missing if they don't know that these somethings exist. Tesla drivers would know about them and I must say that I expected choruses of Tesla drivers to be joining me in my bellyaching about this but that has not proven to be the case. I'm fully aware that Rivian would not be able to redesign their display suite to suit my taste,

Obviously, monitoring consumption along the way is crucial to a successful road trip, but what is Rivian not providing?

Information about consumption. In a Tesla I can see Wh/mi displayed as a function of distance traveled right in front of my eyes and tables of energy used since departure and last charge and Wh/mi for the trip. On the Rivian I can't even see consumption (Wh/mi) but rather its reciprocal in a plot which I can't eyeball for trends as I can't do harmonic arithmetic in my head. But let me get to the most powerful display of all. It looks like this (please excuse the blurry cocked image of a dirty screen):

The left axis shows battery remaining (in %) vs. distance along the route in mlles. The lower line is drawn as soon as you tell the Nav system where you are going. It depitcts the amount of batter at each point along the route including the destination where the lower line intercepts the right vertical axis (here about 20%). This estimate reflects the vehicle' rated conumption (282 Wh/mi). Notice that the line isn't quite straight but has little deviations in it. These represent elevation changes along the way and the fact that the computer knows speed limits.

The upper heavy red line represents actual battery use along the way up to the current location indicated by the open circle 150 miles into the trip. The fact that the red line's slope is less than that of the lower line indicates that we did appreciably better than the rated consumption and predicts that we will reach the destination (Joyce Kilmer SC station) with something like 35% SoC. The slope forward of the open circle is based on the slope of the line behind the circle i.e. it considers how we have been driving as opposed to using the fixed consumption. Based on this display we are able to think about things like speeding up. This would cause consumption to go up and the downward slope of the red line to increase or skipping this charger altogether in favor of the charger in Paramus.

With this display and the other display of Wh/mi vs time I feel I really know the fuel condition of the vehicle mile per mile as I drive. It is always on the screen when I'm on a road trip. I will miss it greatly in the Rivian especially with the iffy DCFC situation.

 

[Scoiatael]

The biggest anxiety for me is "dead" chargers seem all too common.

I can plan my route till I'm blue in the face, but if I get to the DCFC and it doesn't work, then I'm still boned.

This is honestly the biggest advantage I see that Rivian will have over other EV trucks. Once the RAN network is up and running, won't have to deal with EA's lack of maintenance.

 

[ajdelange]

This is honestly the biggest advantage I see that Rivian will have over other EV trucks. Once the RAN network is up and running, won't have to deal with EA's lack of maintenance.

1)It won't have that advantage over the CT
2)Rivian will have to be selling as many cars as Tesla to be able to support a network comparable to the Tesla network
3)Rivian's network will have to have station density comparable to EA's before you can avoid EA
4)How do we know Rivian won't have as many management problems with RA stations as EA is having with their stations?

 

[SeaGeo]

Just curious on why you feel like EA's reliability has decreased over the past year?

I find EA reliability a million times better from my first CCS road trips in 2019. This year alone I have been to PHX twice, Vegas three times, Salt Lake City once, and Kansas City once in my Taycan.

I have never had an issue.

Obviously, the EA network is not perfect, and no charging network will every be, so curious why you think it is less reliable? Have you been stranded somewhere?

From 2020 to 2021 I had generally not heard of entire stations being down, and I had good success with charging at EA. I encountered one station that didn't work, but it was old, vandalized, and has been replaced. Recently I feel like I've heard of several instances where entire stations aren't working, and it seems like it's fairly frequent (or more than I'd like) that they have stations stuck on the 36kw issue.

But that's based on a small sample size, which is why I noted it was an anecdote at this point.

 

[Denver_Paulie]

From 2020 to 2021 I had generally not heard of entire stations being down, and I had good success with charging at EA. I encountered one station that didn't work, but it was old, vandalized, and has been replaced. Recently I feel like I've heard of several instances where entire stations aren't working, and it seems like it's fairly frequent (or more than I'd like) that they have stations stuck on the 36kw issue.

But that's based on a small sample size, which is why I noted it was an anecdote at this point.

All good. This is why Plugshare is our friend.

When I went to Kansas City a couple of weeks ago the Plugshare community had done a good job recently on sharing that the EA location in Colby, KS was having issues, so I knew what the one working cabinet was before I got there. Worked out great, luckily.

I am not giving Electrify America a pass at all, but it is hard to keep up a certain service level for equipment that sits outside year round and is exposed to the elements - freezing cold, searing heat, snow, rain, etc. On top of that, how do you find reliable, and good people to support the equipment in remote locations?

Electrify America needs to identify a vendor to make more reliable equipment, and then I think we would see better uptime.

 

[SeaGeo]

All good. This is why Plugshare is our friend.

When I went to Kansas City a couple of weeks ago the Plugshare community had done a good job recently on sharing that the EA location in Colby, KS was having issues, so I knew what the one working cabinet was before I got there. Worked out great, luckily.

I am not giving Electrify America a pass at all, but it is hard to keep up a certain service level for equipment that sits outside year round and is exposed to the elements - freezing cold, searing heat, snow, rain, etc. On top of that, how do you find reliable, and good people to support the equipment in remote locations?

Electrify America needs to identify a vendor to make more reliable equipment, and then I think we would see better uptime.

I totally agree. Which is why I was saying I think their issue is more supply chain issues than a lack if a desire to maintain their equipment.

I also expect things to get better as they start installing their own hardware that they announced this spring.

 

[R1Sky Business]

This is honestly the biggest advantage I see that Rivian will have over other EV trucks. Once the RAN network is up and running, won't have to deal with EA's lack of maintenance.

Amen......

 

[Canthoney]

Range anxiety is a symptom of poor planning and execution

Except when the damn stations are down and the app doesn’t tell you! I’ll tell you that almost happened to me once with my KiaEV6. The Chargepoint station was completely down, and the nearest station was like 20 miles away and I had 25 miles left. It was definitely nerve-wrackin! Living in the Midwest we don’t have great charging infrastructure yet

 

[Denver_Paulie]

This is honestly the biggest advantage I see that Rivian will have over other EV trucks. Once the RAN network is up and running, won't have to deal with EA's lack of maintenance.

I appreciate your sense of optimism, but it is going to take a loooooooooooooooooong time for Rivian high speed chargers to make any impact on long range vehicle travel.

They want to duplicate the Tesla and Electrify America networks, but in an environment of massive supply chain issues. Tesla has had 10 years to build what they have and that was before a pandemic and no global economic crisis.

CCS vehicles are going to have to depend on Electrify America for long range vehicle travel for a while, so keep an eye on the Plugshare app to prevent surprises.

Not trying to be a Debbie downer, but it is what is.

 

[Taycanfrank]

Just to reiterate what a valuable tool Plugshare is. If you aren't using it when traveling in an EV, you're really making life more difficult.

 

[kylealden]

The biggest anxiety for me is "dead" chargers seem all too common.

I can plan my route till I'm blue in the face, but if I get to the DCFC and it doesn't work, then I'm still boned.

This is 100% my concern. I was just in Mt. Vernon last week and 2 of the 4 chargers were completely broken, and one was Chademo only. Fortunately I was able to pounce on the working 350kW CCS station right as a Bolt left - while I was there, multiple other EVs arrived and left without being able to charge (the Chademo was occupied).

I was only there for about 15 minutes (during which I as "charger limited" about a third of the time), but it was pretty discouraging given the clear demand at the location. (As others have noted, fortunately I wasn't 'surprised' thanks to PlugShare, but it doesn't make much difference if you need a charger to exist and it's broken!)

 

[LaunchGreen]

Anecdotally I feel like EA's reliability has decreased over the last year. I know they have had a lot of supply problems, which has probably exacerbated what seems to be a shitty backend for identifying inadequate charger performance.

Government mandated creation of an EV charging station subsidiary as a fine for emissions violations. Brilliant.

EA is owned by Volkwagen and it's creation was forced by the government as punishment for them cheating emissions standards. Why in the world would anyone think this setup is going to work is beyond me.

Sponsored