EyeOnRivian

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The only advantage I see for the R1S is that it is easier to fit in a garage since it is a foot and a half shorter.
* Conditioned air space where frunk, bed and tunnel are not. E.g. groceries, objects that should not be exposed to freezing or hot temperatures, etc
* Secure space for taller items. (I frequently will travel with bikes in the cargo area. Also protected from weather. And, yes, my windows are tinted.)
* Access to cargo from cabin.
* Fold down 2nd row seats and instant dry, climate controlled and secure camper/sleeping area.
* Additional / optional seating with 3rd row.
* Shorter wheelbases provide better off-road handling (so I've read)
* I recall also reading SUVs are safer than pickup trucks
* More aerodynamic yields slightly greater range
* Some feel SUVs provide a more all-around looking vehicle, say, for an evening out or more formal occasions

That's just off the cuff. I'm sure others see and would use the R1S SUV for what it provides that the R1T doesn't. And of course vice versa. Clearly it's a matter of what's important to the individual. But to say the only advantage is that it's easier to fit in the garage is surely selling it short (pun intended). ;)
And, yes, go Arcimoto! Would love to test drive one of those ... though I'd probably buy one right on the spot! :CWL:
 

thrill

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The R1T and R1S are both just under 6 feet high.
 

bajadahl

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The R1T and R1S are both just under 6 feet high.
They were talking about length... The R1S is has a shorter wheel base which is indeed better for off-roading. Better breakover angle.
 

electruck

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R1S is also better suited to carrying a couple of dogs in the back while still preserving 2 rows of seating for people. Plus, I really have zero use for a pickup bed. The R1T is certainly sexy but hands down the R1S is the best choice for me. Really does come down to an individual's needs and wants.
 

DucRider

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* Conditioned air space where frunk, bed and tunnel are not. E.g. groceries, objects that should not be exposed to freezing or hot temperatures, etc
* Secure space for taller items. (I frequently will travel with bikes in the cargo area. Also protected from weather. And, yes, my windows are tinted.)
* Access to cargo from cabin.
* Fold down 2nd row seats and instant dry, climate controlled and secure camper/sleeping area.
* Additional / optional seating with 3rd row.
* Shorter wheelbases provide better off-road handling (so I've read)
* I recall also reading SUVs are safer than pickup trucks
* More aerodynamic yields slightly greater range
* Some feel SUVs provide a more all-around looking vehicle, say, for an evening out or more formal occasions

That's just off the cuff. I'm sure others see and would use the R1S SUV for what it provides that the R1T doesn't. And of course vice versa. Clearly it's a matter of what's important to the individual. But to say the only advantage is that it's easier to fit in the garage is surely selling it short (pun intended). ;)
And, yes, go Arcimoto! Would love to test drive one of those ... though I'd probably buy one right on the spot! :CWL:
You are right, it is personal, because the items you listed are of little to no value to me. I should have said the only advantage for me was the shorter length.

I've test driven many iterations of the Arcimoto during it's development, but not the latest "production" version. Having motorcycle handlebars/controls in a semi-enclosed cabin and not using counter-steering to turn is very odd after decades of riding, but something I would probably get used to.
 
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The R1S vs R1T decision is easy when you have particular use cases in mind and one vehicle or the other better fits those cases.

I can see myself behind the wheel of either one. But I don't need or want two Rivians, and eventually I'll need to make up my mind. If I was younger, possible use cases would multiply, making the choice even more difficult but, even at my age, it's a tough choice since 90-95% of the time, either one will do just fine.

That being the case, the R1T will be out sooner - how much sooner we don't know - but in a world where all else is equal that might tip the scale in one direction. The R1T is also more versatile, with a gear tunnel and a pickup's open bed goodness but, once again, how often will they come into play? In my case, I'd venture not so often.

I'm envious of folks who know with certainty what they want. More power to you. May everyone make the right choice and not second guess themselves down the line.
 
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Another point I might make, admittedly late in the history of this thread, is the R1S is planned to be produced several months later than the R1T. How should one weigh the later production of the R1S in making a choice between the R1S and R1T?

In earlier posts, the earlier production of the R1T was taken as a plus. In waiting to get our hands on a Rivian, any Rivian, the earlier availability of the R1T was unabashedly good. But, in considering the difficulties of ramping up production, especially in light of Tesla's "production hell", it might benefit the R1S that it's scheduled to be produced after the R1T.

I'm now thinking being first off the line has to be weighed against the likelihood of more fit, finish, paint and other sorts of problems. In balance, if you gotta have it first, you're likely facing more white glove service visits.
 

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Another point I might make, admittedly late in the history of this thread, is the R1S is planned to be produced several months later than the R1T. How should one weigh the later production of the R1S in making a choice between the R1S and R1T?

In earlier posts, the earlier production of the R1T was taken as a plus. In waiting to get our hands on a Rivian, any Rivian, the earlier availability of the R1T was unabashedly good. But, in considering the difficulties of ramping up production, especially in light of Tesla's "production hell", it might benefit the R1S that it's scheduled to be produced after the R1T.

I'm now thinking being first off the line has to be weighed against the likelihood of more fit, finish, paint and other sorts of problems. In balance, if you gotta have it first, you're likely facing more white glove service visits.
I suspect that Rivian will follow the traditional path of running the actual assembly line to produce a number of vehicles that will never be sold. This has two purposes; testing the assembly line itself and checking for quality and reliability issues with production spec vehicles.

Chevy Bolt timeline:
1592323632242.png


The Bolts produced as PPV/MBV were given to employees for months of real world testing before the line was run for actual retail vehicles. The timelines and test vehicle numbers could be different, but I expect the process to be the same.

Tesla does things very differently - skipping the PPV/MVB step (well at least mostly, they sell these vehicles to employees/VIPs and there is a very short wait before retail vehicles are released). Tesla also does not adhere to Model Years, and the part used in building vehicles changes - sometimes vehicles built on the same day will have a different part list. This has advantages and disadvantages. It allows improvements to be made during a model year, but is is also very easy for build quality to suffer as assembly lines are being modified on the fly as the parts used and even method of assembly change.
 
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DucRider, I suspect you're right. Rivian, steeped in ways things are traditionally done in the auto industry, given its CEO, key hires and location, will produce dozens, if not hundreds, of vehicles for testing and manufacturing validation. Nonetheless, if the R1S is produced later, it should benefit from the pre-production and production experiences of the R1T.

But perhaps the R1S will be assembled on a separate transfer line from the R1T. If this is the case, whatever is learned on the R1T line won't necessarily benefit the R1S line. Majors like Toyota produce different models on the same line, saving space and investment in separate transfer lines, but such companies have years of manufacturing experience.

My guess is the R1S and R1T will be built on separate lines. (Trying to do both on the same line needlessly complicates things at the outset, and there's plenty of room and equipment in the Normal plant for two lines. Well, actually three, since the Amazon vans will obviously require a separate line.) Some but not all the learning from one line will transfer to others.
 

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DucRider, I suspect you're right. Rivian, steeped in ways things are traditionally done in the auto industry, given its CEO, key hires and location, will produce dozens, if not hundreds, of vehicles for testing and manufacturing validation. Nonetheless, if the R1S is produced later, it should benefit from the pre-production and production experiences of the R1T.

But perhaps the R1S will be assembled on a separate transfer line from the R1T. If this is the case, whatever is learned on the R1T line won't necessarily benefit the R1S line. Majors like Toyota produce different models on the same line, saving space and investment in separate transfer lines, but such companies have years of manufacturing experience.

My guess is the R1S and R1T will be built on separate lines. (Trying to do both on the same line needlessly complicates things at the outset, and there's plenty of room and equipment in the Normal plant for two lines. Well, actually three, since the Amazon vans will obviously require a separate line.) Some but not all the learning from one line will transfer to others.
I think the quality of an R1S (or R1T for that matter) may depend as much on the day of the week and time of the day built as anything else. I don't think the first R1S will have any different quality issues than an R1T built on that same day.

I believe that the S & T will be built on the same line as it is much more efficient and allows the "mix" to be adjusted on the fly. For modern manufacturers it is standard practice. The Bolt and the Sonic are built ofn the same lines, and one is ICE powered the other electric. The Amazon vehicles will likely be a different line, but the different sizes and configurations of those will also likely be on one line.
 

Lmirafuente

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Does the forum think due to the COVID-19 delays that Rivian would build the R and S at the same time now?
 
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Lmirafuente, good question. There will still be a delay in building the R1S, I believe.

I was told at the Mill Valley/SF event the R1T had gone through several more cycles of design and engineering revision than the R1S, meaning it was farther along the pathway to integration vehicle engineering release (IVER), to use the language of the Bolt example in #38. And while mixed model assembly on the same transfer lines is standard practice for established, experienced OEMs, Rivian is definitely not that.

So, for two reasons, first, the R1T is farther along in its design and engineering trajectory and, second, it's easier to start with assembly of one model instead of two for an inexperienced auto plant, I still expect a delay of several months in the production of the R1S.

On the other hand, with several months of pandemic lockdown and the remote engineering that occurred during the lockdown, maybe the two vehicles are not in very different places in terms of their engineering release.
 
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jjwolf120

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I believe they have said that they will be released closer together than they planned prior to the pandemic.
 
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