paddle shifters yes or no?

[electruck]

Not exactly about paddle shifters, but relevant to the discussion. Local Model Y owner sent this today:

I noticed this behavior in a Tesla Model Y but it really applies to any car that has “one pedal driving” be it an EV or not.​

​

If you are on on a slippery/icy slope and you come to a stop the HOLD function turns your car into a hockey puck. If the car starts to slip turning the wheel or pumping the brakes will do nothing. All four wheels are being held and the car has no information that you are sliding. In my case I slid 100 yards down the road making a 180 degree spin. Fortunately for me there were small drifts of snow that kept me on the road until I reached the bottom.​

​

It took me a some very long WTF moments before I figured out what the deal was.​

​

If you are a “one pedal driving” fan like I am, be aware! If you are going to drive somewhere slippery then turn HOLD to ROLL. CREEP is better but has its own problem of providing the wheels with power when you might not want it. You have to be in PARK to change this feature so, making the change while driving when you see ice coming is not an option. Your one life saver if you start slipping is NEUTRAL. But you have to have the presence of mind to know what’s happening and then be calm enough to hold the shifter half way toward REVERSE for a full second while you’re sliding into the ditch.​

​

I suspect that REGEN will cause the same problem at speed. At least at-speed you can use the brakes and the anti-lock will keep you on the road. You can also hold the throttle so you are effectively rolling. Just be aware that REGEN is slowing the wheels pretty aggressively. That’s why the brake lights come on.​

Someone should send this to Rivian and ask them for comment in the context of the R1 and whether they might also provide an online "driver safety" course to better prepare people to handle emergency/extreme driving conditions especially in situations where that may differ from handling the same situations with an ICE vehicle.

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[thrill]

Not exactly about paddle shifters, but relevant to the discussion. Local Model Y owner sent this today:

I noticed this behavior in a Tesla Model Y but it really applies to any car that has “one pedal driving” be it an EV or not.​

​

If you are on on a slippery/icy slope and you come to a stop the HOLD function turns your car into a hockey puck. If the car starts to slip turning the wheel or pumping the brakes will do nothing. All four wheels are being held and the car has no information that you are sliding. In my case I slid 100 yards down the road making a 180 degree spin. Fortunately for me there were small drifts of snow that kept me on the road until I reached the bottom.​

​

It took me a some very long WTF moments before I figured out what the deal was.​

​

If you are a “one pedal driving” fan like I am, be aware! If you are going to drive somewhere slippery then turn HOLD to ROLL. CREEP is better but has its own problem of providing the wheels with power when you might not want it. You have to be in PARK to change this feature so, making the change while driving when you see ice coming is not an option. Your one life saver if you start slipping is NEUTRAL. But you have to have the presence of mind to know what’s happening and then be calm enough to hold the shifter half way toward REVERSE for a full second while you’re sliding into the ditch.​

​

I suspect that REGEN will cause the same problem at speed. At least at-speed you can use the brakes and the anti-lock will keep you on the road. You can also hold the throttle so you are effectively rolling. Just be aware that REGEN is slowing the wheels pretty aggressively. That’s why the brake lights come on.​

It's unlikely that anti-skid will not detect differing wheel rotation from that commanded until the vehicle gets slow enough that it is basically stopped. Additionally, the Rivian supposedly has a high-precision GPS (on the order of 1 foot) which could be used to provide supportive data to the anti-slip system. But if you try to stop on a sheet of ice then no rubber is going to keep you stopped.

 

[DucRider]

It's unlikely that anti-skid will not detect differing wheel rotation from that commanded until the vehicle gets slow enough that it is basically stopped. Additionally, the Rivian supposedly has a high-precision GPS (on the order of 1 foot) which could be used to provide supportive data to the anti-slip system. But if you try to stop on a sheet of ice then no rubber is going to keep you stopped.

This particular case was using a brake hold type feature and the car started sliding after it was stopped. Since the car didn't know it was moving, the brakes remained "locked". Likely that pressing the accelerator would have released the brakes and allowed steering and braking inputs.

 

[ajdelange]

A couple of comments:
The problem is caused by what Tesla calls "hill mode". If it is on the mechanical brake engages whenever the vehicle is stopped. This is so that the driver doesn't have to maintain brake pressure to hold position if stopped on a hill. Hill mode is on if regen is selected. Regen in a Tesla leads to single pedal driving but the same will happen with regen off if hill mode is on.

Second:the Global Positioning System would be better named as the Global Position and Velocity Determination System becase it estimates both speed and velocity from the satellite signals. Note that this is not done by measuring position at two times and then dividing the position difference by the time difference. Velocity is a separate state variable. Thus the vehicle can tell that it is moving when the wheels are locked.

Third: I do not know but strongly suspect that the vehicles are equipped with accelerometers. These also give velocity data.

But of what use is velocity data? If the car cannot apply thrust to the roadbed it cannot control itself. The value in reporting this annecdote is that owners are alerted that fantastic as one pedal driving may be it cannot save you in a situation where control is not possible. I'm not sure what i would do if I found myself in this situation. Depress the skinny pedal ever so slightly, steer very gently to try to stay on the road and back off the pedal very gently?

 

[Gshenderson]

This new video shows the paddle shifters are still there...
https://blog.mapbox.com/doing-ces-differently-512c5500f7c8

 

[electruck]

This new video shows the paddle shifters are still there...
https://blog.mapbox.com/doing-ces-differently-512c5500f7c8

That's not new video, it is from CES 2020 making it 12 months out of date.

 

[jjwolf120]

Can we please agree that I agree.

No. It is clear that we cannot agree that you agree. It has been determened that you must disagree regardless of your own feelings on the matter.

 

[DucRider]

No. It is clear that we cannot agree that you agree. It has been determened that you must disagree regardless of your own feelings on the matter.

It's kind of fun to guess the content after you "Ignore" someone ?.
If I ever wanted to, I could hit "show ignored content". Hasn't happened yet.
Too bad because there is sometimes wisdom in his verbose and often bellicose posts.

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