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MisterTea

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I’m with you there. The Lucid Air interior is beautiful, and matches the S Class in my opinion.
I just really don't like that you cant have the interior in one color. The front seats being a different color than the rest of the car bothers me.
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MisterTea

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Anyone else think its time for Rivian to announce something? I could get the R1S or the Model S for the same price. The Model S has a longer range, full autonomous driving capability, an established charging network, etc. If I were Rivian I would be afraid of people jumping ship. I know the cars serve two different purposes, but that is a big upgrade on Teslas part.
 

Rhidan

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Anyone else think its time for Rivian to announce something? I could get the R1S or the Model S for the same price. The Model S has a longer range, full autonomous driving capability, an established charging network, etc. If I were Rivian I would be afraid of people jumping ship. I know the cars serve two different purposes, but that is a big upgrade on Teslas part.
No, I don’t think Rivian is worried at all. The market for sedans continues to shrink.
 

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Anyone else think its time for Rivian to announce something? I could get the R1S or the Model S for the same price. The Model S has a longer range, full autonomous driving capability, an established charging network, etc. If I were Rivian I would be afraid of people jumping ship. I know the cars serve two different purposes, but that is a big upgrade on Teslas part.
I would only compare R1S with Model X, and R1S comes out $20k cheaper in base configuration or over $10k cheaper for Launch Edition, not to mention the $7500 tax credit. The more conventional design of the controls and doors is a plus as well.
 

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Anyone else think its time for Rivian to announce something? I could get the R1S or the Model S for the same price. The Model S has a longer range, full autonomous driving capability, an established charging network, etc. If I were Rivian I would be afraid of people jumping ship. I know the cars serve two different purposes, but that is a big upgrade on Teslas part.
I bet there is very little overlap between people considering Rivian and those considering Tesla Model S.

There is probably more overlap with Rivian and Model X -- but the Model X upgrades were less impressive and Rivian capabilities are still superior (not to mention a real steering wheel).
 

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azbill

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Not to mention hand-over-hand turning which would be tough with that thing.
On airplanes the wheel only turns 90-100 degrees, so there is no hand over hand. I suspect that for this wheel design the gearing is very different such that the wheel only moves about 90 degrees at full travel. You can also put in something called "expo" (term from RC aircraft joysticks) that provides low gain around neutral and higher gain as you get to full travel. It would take a little getting used to, but is not likely a big deal.
 

DucRider

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On airplanes the wheel only turns 90-100 degrees, so there is no hand over hand. I suspect that for this wheel design the gearing is very different such that the wheel only moves about 90 degrees at full travel. You can also put in something called "expo" (term from RC aircraft joysticks) that provides low gain around neutral and higher gain as you get to full travel. It would take a little getting used to, but is not likely a big deal.
You better hope the one position you can use to put you hands on the yoke is comfortable.
Or go shopping for an "Autopilot Buddy":
Rivian R1T R1S New Tesla Model S/X 1611851587460
 

sevengroove

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Anyone else think its time for Rivian to announce something? I could get the R1S or the Model S for the same price. The Model S has a longer range, full autonomous driving capability, an established charging network, etc. If I were Rivian I would be afraid of people jumping ship. I know the cars serve two different purposes, but that is a big upgrade on Teslas part.
I see where you're coming from - I'm envious of those range numbers on both the S and X. But as others have mentioned, we're comparing different markets and use cases. The Model X comes close if you're not really keen on off-roading much, but you're still looking at $90k with the 7 seater option and nothing else added. Conservatively speaking, let's say the Max pack R1S comes in at 350 miles (10 short of the X) at an extra $10k. You're then looking at $80k for an Explore package R1S with 350 miles (or $87.5k for Adventure) for a much much more capable vehicle. Anddd you get the $7.5k tax credit. AAAND you get free OTA Driver+ updates instead of having to pay an extra $10k for the privilege of using Tesla's full driving package.
 

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AAAND you get free OTA Driver+ updates instead of having to pay an extra $10k for the privilege of using Tesla's full driving package
Driver+ is roughly equivalent to what comes on a Tesla without the Full self driving option (it does have a couple of Tesla FSD features like lane change, so maybe something in between the two). Rivian will almost certainly charge for FSD if/when they make it available. They have only stated that the hardware is standard on all vehicles, not that implementation would be free.
 

ajdelange

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On airplanes the wheel only turns 90-100 degrees, so there is no hand over hand. I suspect that for this wheel design the gearing is very different such that the wheel only moves about 90 degrees at full travel. You can also put in something called "expo" (term from RC aircraft joysticks) that provides low gain around neutral and higher gain as you get to full travel. It would take a little getting used to, but is not likely a big deal.
Why doesn't the yoke on an airplane turn more than 90°? Because it doesn't have to. It seems obvious, therefore, that this yoke won't have to either. The possible implications of this are fascinating. The first one is that the steering wheel input sensitivity is not constant but rather much higher at high speed, for example, than low. Or, if not tied to speed, non linear (like the exponential gain curve referenced in the quoted post). The implication of either of those is that the steering is not mechanical that is, that the wheel is not mechanically connected to the tires; that the system is "fly by wire". Does NHTSA allow that?
 

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sevengroove

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Driver+ is roughly equivalent to what comes on a Tesla without the Full self driving option (it does have a couple of Tesla FSD features like lane change, so maybe something in between the two). Rivian will almost certainly charge for FSD if/when they make it available. They have only stated that the hardware is standard on all vehicles, not that implementation would be free.
Fair enough, that's good clarification.
 

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electruck

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mechanical implementations of variable ratio steering (ie, not by-wire) have been around since the 90s.
 

MReda

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Driver+ is roughly equivalent to what comes on a Tesla without the Full self driving option (it does have a couple of Tesla FSD features like lane change, so maybe something in between the two). Rivian will almost certainly charge for FSD if/when they make it available. They have only stated that the hardware is standard on all vehicles, not that implementation would be free.
It's not quite that certain.

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All features are standard
Automatic braking in emergencies. Lane keeping if you drift. Alerts for vehicles in your blind spot. Every Rivian vehicle includes these features and more, all standard. Through over-the-air updates, we’ll add more over time at no cost to you.
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Rivian Driver+ is standard on every vehicle we build. Delivering true hands-free driving assistance along with our full set of safety features, the system continually adds functionality through over-the-air updates. By making Driver+ standard, our goal is to make driving safer, easier and less stressful for everyone.
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Automatic driving assistance and active safety features are standard on every Rivian vehicle. Some may be introduced through over-the-air software updates following start of production.
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Active Driving Assistance will be enabled on select highways at launch with more road types introduced over time.
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Active Driving Assistance is defined as "Automatic steering, braking and acceleration on select highways while engaged. ", and the wording above implies free updates to add more road types.

Sure - all they have to do is change the name to Driver++, call it a new feature and they can upcharge, and there is no mention of connecting it with navigation, so that could be an upcharge option, plenty of places for them to decide to charge, but I'm assuming that a lot of the level 3 capabilities they are targeting are included here as free OTA updates. Time could prove me wrong.
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