NACS still a BIG differentiator for Tesla - not what I hoped for

[vandy1981]

Tesla would have to give up their proprietary protocol. Which I don't see them doing, they are very protective about their tech. I don't think licensing it would be acceptable to the other OEMs.

I tend to agree with you. V2's will be more irrelevant in a few years anyway.

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[RivianRunner]

NACS access is a big deal and a big change. But it’s not an overnight silver bullet. It’s something that will evolve and be solved over multiple years.

So, you're saying it's more involved than Tesla simply flipping a switch in the first week of March?

Who would have thunk?

It amazes me how much the peanut gallery wants to sit on their collective butts and heckle the people doing the hard work to improve the EV infrastructure!

 

[RivianRunner]

Tesla would have to give up their proprietary protocol. Which I don't see them doing, they are very protective about their tech. I don't think licensing it would be acceptable to the other OEMs.

That's a bunch of BS. Tesla is more open with their technology and where it's going than any other company out there. But push the narrative that suits your inner hatred.

Tesla already opened all their EV patents to competitors back in 2015 to accelerate electrification.

 

[RivianRunner]

I didn't know those are V2 Superchargers. Do we know if V2's will be open to NACS native non-tesla vehicles?

Not until the V2s are replaced with V4s (or higher). That could take a while because Tesla is trying to build out the charging infrastructure in a capital efficient manner, not waste hundreds of billions of dollars like VW did with Electrify America. The amount wasted was cringeworthy compared to what Tesla did with the Supercharger Network. Tesla won't replace V2s until they have outlived their usefulness.

 

[SANZC02]

That's a bunch of BS. Tesla is more open with their technology and where it's going than any other company out there. But push the narrative that suits your inner hatred.

Tesla already opened all their EV patents to competitors back in 2015 to accelerate electrification.

Not as innocent as it sounds….

Read this analysis on why no one took them up on it back then.

 

[RivianRunner]

Tesla is not going to make it easy to give up the one thing that differentiates them and makes them stand out in the EV space. Other car manufactures will be hostage to Tesla's tech, and when Tesla wants to offer additional location availability. Frankly, if I were Tesla I would do the same thing.

False. Tesla has already "given up" most of their network to competitors vehicles ahead of schedule. It's just a matter of continuing to roll out hardware and software upgrades to the remaining stations. This is not cheap or easy as Supercharger technicians do not inhabit remote sites, they must be dispatched from distant cities at great time and expense.

Nobody is hostage to Tesla's technology, anyone who wants to can install NACS chargers. The problem is that it's a very low margin business that requires constant servicing and replacement of damaged/vandalized parts (that are not cheap to manufacture). Tesla is showing the world how to do it in the most efficient manner in order to accelerate electrification. Tesla is even manufacturing reliable fast charging equipment for others to brand with their branding (like the $100 million partnership with BP to deploy DCFC'ers with BP Pulse branding).

If people are "hostage" to Tesla's technology, it is only because every other company is failing so dramatically to provide what consumers want, robust, cost effective, well-located fast charging solutions. None of it is proprietary, stop with the nonsense!

 

[RivianRunner]

Not as innocent as it sounds….

Read this analysis on why no one took them up on it back then.

But others did "take Tesla up" on their offer to open source their patents. In fact, many EV manufacturers are using Tesla's patents without royalties or licenses and Tesla has not sued a single one of them. The Rivian lawsuit was a different beast altogether. It was theft of internal documents (not technology related), customer sourced data and business strategies that was confidential.

By opening up Tesla's broad EV patent portfolio to other makers, Musk was simply trying to get rid of the impediment he saw to electrification, companies being sue-happy with their patents. As Tesla's patented technology becomes more deeply embedded in all EVs, they have diminished ability to assert patent infringement against Tesla without risking countersuits for technology they have already been using.

So far, his idea has helped accelerate electrification far beyond anything envisioned by auto analysts when Tesla's Model S received all kinds of awards and accolades.

There will never be a shortage of news articles ascribing evil motives to Musk's words and actions, that doesn't mean they are accurate. I believe in looking at reality, the impact his words and actions have on the industry.

 

[COdogman]

But others did "take Tesla up" on their offer to open source their patents. In fact, many EV manufacturers are using Tesla's patents without royalties or licenses and Tesla has not sued a single one of them. The Rivian lawsuit was a different beast altogether. It was theft of internal documents (not technology related), customer sourced data and business strategies that was confidential.

By opening up Tesla's broad EV patent portfolio to other makers, Musk was simply trying to get rid of the impediment he saw to electrification, companies being sue-happy with their patents. As Tesla's patented technology becomes more deeply embedded in all EVs, they have diminished ability to assert patent infringement against Tesla without risking countersuits for technology they have already been using.

So far, his idea has helped accelerate electrification far beyond anything envisioned by auto analysts when Tesla's Model S received all kinds of awards and accolades.

There will never be a shortage of news articles ascribing evil motives to Musk's words and actions, that doesn't mean they are accurate. I believe in looking at reality, the impact his words and actions have on the industry.

That is 100% false. Tesla has sued multiple companies despite their “open source” pledge. Here is one recent example:

https://electrek.co/2023/07/17/tesl...tent-infringement-despite-open-patent-pledge/

The reason more companies did NOT attempt to take advantage of that “pledge” is simple: It’s worded in a way that still leaves the door wide open for Tesla to sue any company for violating it based on the minute to minute mood swings of an overgrown toddler billionaire. So it’s not really a pledge at all, is it?

Any corporate lawyer who allowed their company to use one of Tesla’s “open” patents should be fired immediately. That “pledge” is nothing more than a PR stunt.

 

[Wing]

In Canada (particularly in Ontario) it has opened up a huge area that was previously a charging desert (tundra?). Oddly on the eastern ontario side it's all V2 chargers so still dead, but hopefully those will be updated soon.

A major route from Toronto to Ottawa is now available with 24 superchargers spread out over 300km. Which previously had 1, yes 1 DCFC at 50kw!

 

[zefram47]

Most V3/4 superchargers aren’t open to NACS adapters yet. They will be soon

Most of the Tesla SCs along the rocky mountain corridor into Kansas are V2 and will never open to J3400...that's the problem.

 

[BigSkies]

So, you're saying it's more involved than Tesla simply flipping a switch in the first week of March?

Who would have thunk?

It amazes me how much the peanut gallery wants to sit on their collective butts and heckle the people doing the hard work to improve the EV infrastructure!

It's almost like the entire world doesn't revolve around a collective Elon Musk lovefest/hatefest.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Maybe. Just maybe this is being driven by complex and nuanced technical challenges. There's also a chance that important decisions impacting complex interoperability requirements are being decided by a layer of middle managers that just want to get home to their families at night and hit their year-end bonus targets. Could this even be possible? Is there a potential world where Elon Musk is not at the center of every single thing that happens in the EV space?

 

[emoore]

Has anyone noticed any newer V3/V4 superchargers being open to CCS cars? The new ones that I've checked are open to Tesla but not other EVs. Not sure why unless this is just a one time thing.

 

[CharonPDX]

I didn't know those are V2 Superchargers. Do we know if V2's will be open to NACS native non-tesla vehicles?

V2s will never support NACS. Tesla will have to upgrade them from V2 to V3/V4.

 

[CharonPDX]

But others did "take Tesla up" on their offer to open source their patents. In fact, many EV manufacturers are using Tesla's patents without royalties or licenses and Tesla has not sued a single one of them.

Evidence please? Tesla's "all our patents" pledge was hot garbage that no other manufacturer would possibly take them up on, under the facade of "open source". The only company that took them up on *anything* prior to the full "NACS, actually fully released with no caveats" announcement was Aptera. Who, to be blunt, didn't matter. (I say that as a shareholder and reservation-holder. Aptera's embrace wasn't the reason NACS succeeded.)

 

[R.I.P.]

Evidence please? Tesla's "all our patents" pledge was hot garbage that no other manufacturer would possibly take them up on, under the facade of "open source". The only company that took them up on *anything* prior to the full "NACS, actually fully released with no caveats" announcement was Aptera. Who, to be blunt, didn't matter. (I say that as a shareholder and reservation-holder. Aptera's embrace wasn't the reason NACS succeeded.)

Hum.

I am not sure where you are trying to go with your argument, but large swaths of EV Tech currently being used by everybody is simply cut and paste from Tesla's research, to include Rivian vehicles.

To be sure, we are all better off for it, and Rivian vehicles are better off for it.

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