Minimum Charging Speed Requirements at RAN

[JoulesVerne]

I just pulled into a EA location to find all three DCFC dispensers full.

Interestingly one of the cars charging was a Subaru Solterra with 62% SOC. It was charging at a whopping nineteen (19!!) kW. The driver said he was going to 80% SOC which the dispenser estimated would take 80 minutes. Imagine if he was going to 100%.

If RAN someday opens up to non-Rivian vehicles I hope they enforce minimum charging speeds that boot slow chargers (accounting for SOC) if the location gets full (or if they occupy the only trailer dispenser).

Otherwise escaped compliance cars (like the Solterra and Bz4x) will be clogging up dispensers.

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[Mathme]

I agree. It's usually an ID4 choking up the fast chargers whenever I'm around them.

@JoulesVerne I see you have a 1Up bike Rack. One suggestion for ya that I love about mine. I put a 4" drop drop from the truck to the rack, and then an anti-rattle lock on the truck side. I then used the 1Up lock on the rack side. Benefits of this include:

1. Bikes are lower to lift and lower off the rack (those E-bikes I have are heavy)
2. I can lower the tailgate with the rack on and not have to worry about hitting the rack;
3. I Can see over the center bars of the bikes out the rear-center mirror.

 

[ads75]

Its kind of hard to tell someone charging to stop, they may need the distance. Probably not, but maybe. But I think most of these people have nothing better to do, especially if they got free credits when they bought their cars. Look at the lines for Costco gas, people will wait 15 minutes to save a few cents a gallon.

Around Christmas I pulled into a EA site in NJ, 2 stalls in use, KIa EV6 and a Hyundai Ioniq 5. I did not notice or look at their state of charge, the Kia left at some point, and I left later. The Ioniq 5 was still there when I left, not sure if his stall was slow/broken, if he needed the range, or if he'd rather spend time in a parking lot rather than his parents or his in-laws house during the holidays.

In the spring I pulled into a EA site in Scranton PA, 2x150kw and 2x350kw, a Hyundai Ioniq (the old version, not the fast charging 5) was the only one plugged in...to a 350kw. He was above 80%. I was around 40%, I had trouble with a 150kw stall, probably my fault looking back, and switched to the other 350kw spot. I charged from about 40% to close to 80% in about 30-40 minutes. The Ioniq was still there when I left, somewhere above 90%. He looked somewhat confused when I left, like he thought I should charge to 100%, or confused why I was leaving before him. I did not talk to him at all. Now, while I was there, there was no line, always one stall open. But as I left, a Polestar 2 was pulling into the parking lot, I assume to take the last spot I left.

I think the only thing the charging stations can do to discourage topping off to 100% or a high state of charge, is to implement time limits, and adjust the money accordingly. First 45 minutes is $, next 15 minutes is $$, next 15 minutes is $$$. Also, the free credits people are getting when they buy new should be restricted to something like "free to 80%". Its also hard to charge more if a stall is broken/reduced, as its not the drivers fault.

 

[WSea]

Install more chargers so it becomes a non issue. Also, chargers that work

 

[sub]

They can address slow charging vehicles by billing by the minute. With a single rate far all. No cheaper tier for slow charging vehicles.

If they charged everyone $1 per minute, that would dissuade people from charging to 100% or from monopolizing the stall all day with a crappy slow-charging EV.

 

[mkg3]

It all sounds snobbish. Just because you happen to own a vehicle that has higher charging capability, you want to exclude those that own vehicles that can only charge at lower rate.

There are vehicles that can charge faster than Rivian. Do you want someone with faster charging capability to exclude you to access from such a charger?

We just need more stalls at the charging stations.

While EA and Rivians are installing 4~8 stalls per station, Tesla is installing 40~60 stalls at their new stations. We need more stalls, not excluding those who own vehicles with slower charging speeds.

 

[SwaziCAR]

It all sounds snobbish. Just because you happen to own a vehicle that has higher charging capability, you want to exclude those that own vehicles that can only charge at lower rate.

There are vehicles that can charge faster than Rivian. Do you want someone with faster charging capability to exclude you to access from such a charger?

We just need more stalls at the charging stations.

While EA and Rivians are installing 4~8 stalls per station, Tesla is installing 40~60 stalls at their new stations. We need more stalls, not excluding those who own vehicles with slower charging speeds.

Amen!

 

[emoore]

Yeah we just need more chargers. Can’t get max at someone who is charging slow or to 100%. If they aren’t charging and taking up a spot then I understand being upset.

 

[JoulesVerne]

I think the degree of slowness is not fully appreciated here. I haven't seen the charging curve, and I'm ignoring things like total battery capacity, but if this was the max rate of the Solterra that puts it at roughly 1/10 the speed of a Rivian.

So if Rivian were to build capacity for these cars at the same proportion as their own vehicles they would need to build 10 RAN/Solterra dispensers for every RAN/Rivian dispenser to accommodate these things.

So yes, I agree that there should be many, many more dispensers available. But I'm actually arguing that these cars are so exceptionally bad at being EVs that they run the risk of totally saturating any network unless it is ten times bigger than it needs to be.

Nevermind the fact that Toyota/Subaru will bring exactly zero dispensers into the world this year or next.

Given the situation I don't think it would be unreasonable for Rivian to somehow limit their usage of the RAN under certain circumstances.

What I think is most likely to happen is that buyers in the market for an EV will avoid these like the plague, Rivian will choose not incur bad will by limiting them, and the problem will solve itself.

 

[emoore]

I think the degree of slowness is not fully appreciated here. I haven't seen the charging curve, and I'm ignoring things like total battery capacity, but if this was the max rate of the Solterra that puts it at roughly 1/10 the speed of a Rivian.

So if Rivian were to build capacity for these cars at the same proportion as their own vehicles they would need to build 10 RAN/Solterra dispensers for every RAN/Rivian dispenser to accommodate these things.

So yes, I agree that there should be many, many more dispensers available. But I'm actually arguing that these cars are so exceptionally bad at being EVs that they run the risk of totally saturating any network unless it is ten times bigger than it needs to be.

Nevermind the fact that Toyota/Subaru will bring exactly zero dispensers into the world this year or next.

Given the situation I don't think it would be unreasonable for Rivian to somehow limit their usage of the RAN under certain circumstances.

What I think is most likely to happen is that buyers in the market for an EV will avoid these like the plague, Rivian will choose not incur bad will by limiting them, and the problem will solve itself.

Quick google search says the Solterra can charge at 100kw max. Not great but not the slowest either. Probably EA charger issue.

 

[ads75]

I think the degree of slowness is not fully appreciated here. I haven't seen the charging curve, and I'm ignoring things like total battery capacity, but if this was the max rate of the Solterra that puts it at roughly 1/10 the speed of a Rivian.

So if Rivian were to build capacity for these cars at the same proportion as their own vehicles they would need to build 10 RAN/Solterra dispensers for every RAN/Rivian dispenser to accommodate these things.

So yes, I agree that there should be many, many more dispensers available. But I'm actually arguing that these cars are so exceptionally bad at being EVs that they run the risk of totally saturating any network unless it is 10 times bigger than it needs to be.

Nevermind the fact that Toyota/Subaru will bring exactly zero dispensers into the world this year or next.

Given the situation I don't think it would be unreasonable for Rivian to somehow limit their usage of the RAN under certain circumstances.

What I think is most likely to happen is that buyers in the market for an EV will avoid these like the plague, Rivian will not incur bad will by limiting them, and the problem will solve itself.

A quick google search makes it look like the max charging speed on the Solterra is about 100kw, not great, but higher than the 19kw you said they were doing. Sure, maybe the charging curve drops off severely for this car, I don't know. But if he was charging at 19kw, due to a broken or limited charger, it would take a Rivian vastly longer to get the same range, due to truck vs compact car. He might be charging at 19kw at 62% because the stall is broken.

 

[JoulesVerne]

Looks like Out of Spec got the Toyota variant up to 88 kW max. The official specs state 100 kW for both variants. According to their observed charging curve this guy should have been charging at around 30 kW.

So either it was a busted EA dispenser or the battery wasn't pre-conditioned (it was high 50's).

Still a really abysmal charging curve, but not in 1/10th territory any longer.

 

[biglet]

If RAN someday opens up to non-Rivian vehicles I hope they enforce minimum charging speeds that boot slow chargers (accounting for SOC) if the location gets full (or if they occupy the only trailer dispenser).

Imagine how Tesla owners feel with Superchargers opening up. Basically just doubled the number of other vehicles they'll have to compete with for a charger. Everyone's going to have to learn to share and wait their turn.

 

[ads75]

Looks like Out of Spec got the Toyota variant up to 88 kW max. The official specs state 100 kW for both variants. According to their observed charging curve this guy should have been charging at around 30 kW.

So either it was a busted EA dispenser or the battery wasn't pre-conditioned (it was high 50's).

Still a really abysmal charging curve, but not in 1/10th territory any longer.

Just keep in mind, it can look pretty hypocritical from the other side to criticize slow charging curves for compact cars, while driving a Rivian which is among the least efficient EVs. It also can have a sense of gate keeping or entitlement, not everyone can afford the $70k entry price to Rivian. Typically faster charging requires better equipment, higher prices. People that pay $30k for a vehicle still have places to go, things to do.

 

[JoulesVerne]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I place the blame squarely on Toyota/Subaru for making a crap EV that costs $45,000 - $50,000 and dupes their brand faithful into purchasing an awful charging experience.

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