CCS is Dead Man Walkin’

[Tahoe Man]

That really has no impact on the US market. We've had differing standards on various things for ages. Even the Chinese uses something other th

There’s a lot of posts talking about CCS is Europe. The Europe CCS2 is completely different from CCS1 in NA. And irrelevant anyways. People as a rule do not move personal cars across oceans, so whatever they have in Europe (and China, and Japan) has no bearing on what we use in North America.

Agree, there's some that love to point out the "but Europe has CCS"... So what...!!

Sponsored

 

[Tahoe Man]

At this point, I'd say it's only a matter of time before Rivian announces support for NACS.

I wonder what this does for RAN.

 

[DuoRivians]

CharIN just surrendered...
https://www.charin.global/news/char...o-supports-the-standardization-of-tesla-nacs/


Hey @jjswan33 I think I should start a new thread for this but I'm worried about your PTSD.. ?

If supporting the standardization of NACS, does this mean that NACS and its evolution will be subject to an independent standards board, i.e. no longer controlled by one entity Tesla?

 

[sub]

It is very dangerous to send 500A down a connector, let alone 900A.

Which is why going up in voltage to 800V or more is the safer route.

That argument goes both ways. 400V DC is very dangerous. 800V DC is doubly so.

But I don't think it matters which is worse. 200KW is not survivable at either voltage.

 

[jjswan33]

CharIN just surrendered...
https://www.charin.global/news/char...o-supports-the-standardization-of-tesla-nacs/


Hey @jjswan33 I think I should start a new thread for this but I'm worried about your PTSD.. ?

I mean.. can you leave me alone I already got a take down notice from Elon's new venture Whale Blubber Unlimited.

 

[2025R1S]

Could add all the DCFC installed by every other brand in 2022, and they wouldn’t add up to what Tesla manufactured in just 6 months of 2022.

Can’t believe supercharge.info site - never seen it before. They are installing chargers in tiny towns with less than 1000 people; why would Tesla be wasting their money on these locations? It’s like they are rubbing it in our face that we can’t get anyone to save CCS.

 

[2025R1S]

I mean NACS chargers faster than 100kW are being installed at a pace that is 4x+ greater than CCS.

When I say CCS is behind NACS; what I really mean is no one has stepped up to support it in a big way. If it weren’t for EA, there would be hardly any CCS1 stations in USA.

When people say "NACS is so far ahead of CCS" - what exactly do they mean. Please be specific on details. As far as I knew/know - they both support data transmission, and similar power delivery capabilities, with CCS actually providing more peak power than your average tesla supercharger station - is that wrong? The plug and play capabilities of NACS I believe is more down to being within a single ecosystem than the entire inability of CCS to do such things as a specification.

Where does NACS greatly exceed the capabilities of the spec for CCS - not the implementation(s) we currently have - the spec? I'm not upset and demanding justification, I'm asking for the info because I feel like my understanding is apparently very limited/incorrect based upon what seems to keep coming up about it.

I wish I could bet money on you mentioning standards board

Still haven’t taken the L on this one?

If supporting the standardization of NACS, does this mean that NACS and its evolution will be subject to an independent standards board, i.e. no longer controlled by one entity Tesla?

 

[SASSquatch]

Could add all the DCFC installed by every other brand in 2022, and they wouldn’t add up to what Tesla manufactured in just 6 months of 2022.

Can’t believe supercharge.info site - never seen it before. They are installing chargers in tiny towns with less than 1000 people; why would Tesla be wasting their money on these locations? It’s like they are rubbing it in our face that we can’t get anyone to save CCS.

They are cornering the market for when they convince everyone to switch to NACS because they aren't able to hold back competition from other OEMS who finally are leaning in to EVs.

This was a strategy put in place years ago by Elon Musk. He knew that the profits would have to shift from sales of EVs to sales of EV charging.

Welcome to a charging infrastructure dominated by Tesla. Hope you don't mind paying more for the same charge in your non-Tesla vehicle.

 

[2025R1S]

Tesla can’t force ABB to charge non-Tesla vehicles with NACS more than they can a Tesla.

we’re still going to have plenty of competition. I bet there is a patent, or fifty Patents even, on the gas dispensers we all used to use. And I never once felt those patents made my gasoline more expensive.

They are cornering the market for when they convince everyone to switch to NACS because they aren't able to hold back competition from other OEMS who finally are leaning in to EVs.

This was a strategy put in place years ago by Elon Musk. He knew that the profits would have to shift from sales of EVs to sales of EV charging.

Welcome to a charging infrastructure dominated by Tesla. Hope you don't mind paying more for the same charge in your non-Tesla vehicle.

 

[2025R1S]

please stop minimizing the burden that disabled people live with. They deserve to be able to own and use EV’s, too.

I will as soon as I stop using “disabilities” as excuses ?

 

[gt2690b]

They are cornering the market for when they convince everyone to switch to NACS because they aren't able to hold back competition from other OEMS who finally are leaning in to EVs.

This was a strategy put in place years ago by Elon Musk. He knew that the profits would have to shift from sales of EVs to sales of EV charging.

Welcome to a charging infrastructure dominated by Tesla. Hope you don't mind paying more for the same charge in your non-Tesla vehicle.

there are many chargers out there more expensive than tesla's SC... that said.. there is nothing stopping companies like EA from including NACS support and undercutting tesla's $/kwh

the EV market needs to come together to ultimately overtake the ICE market and dividing the charge standard does not help

 

[SASSquatch]

there are many chargers out there more expensive than tesla's SC... that said.. there is nothing stopping companies like EA from including NACS support and undercutting tesla's $/kwh

the EV market needs to come together to ultimately overtake the ICE market and dividing the charge standard does not help

You are right, of course. But Elon Musk has had over a decade to build out and refine the Tesla Supercharger network. Any third party will be lightyears behind the curve and utterly hapless next to the engineering refinement and IP involved with the Tesla Supercharger network.

Remember, Musk isn't giving away the IP for the superchargers - just the port.

I don't disagree with the fact that we need to standardize the experience for EV owners so that we can scale adoption, but something as important as infrastructure shouldn't be so heavily influenced by a single private entity.

Does a single gas station brand control all the gas station pumping, refining, and servicing in the US?

 

[gt2690b]

You are right, of course. But Elon Musk has had over a decade to build out and refine the Tesla Supercharger network. Any third party will be lightyears behind the curve and utterly hapless next to the engineering refinement and IP involved with the Tesla Supercharger network.

Remember, Musk isn't giving away the IP for the superchargers - just the port.

I don't disagree with the fact that we need to standardize the experience for EV owners so that we can scale adoption, but something as important as infrastructure shouldn't be so heavily influenced by a single private entity.

Does a single gas station brand control all the gas station pumping, refining, and servicing in the US?

just because we standardize on NACS does not mean we standardize on using Tesla's network... but if im in the middle of nowhere and need gas and EXXON is all that is around you better believe i will gladly use EXXON

if you cant beat them join them

 

[DuoRivians]

That argument goes both ways. 400V DC is very dangerous. 800V DC is doubly so.

But I don't think it matters which is worse. 200KW is not survivable at either voltage.

Fair point on what can “kill” a person. From what I’ve read, it seems most are keen are keeping current lower and voltage higher, all else equal, because it will result in less heat loss and won’t require thicker cables.

 

[bd5400]

It really amazes me how against this people are. This is one of the single biggest positive moves toward nation wide EV adoption. This is going to be a positive for every person on this thread. In ~2 years no one is going to be complaining about "bring back CCS!" "Save CCS!" "we need multiple standards for competition!" as every new EV has access to almost all public EV chargers making EV ownership painless. It really comes down to hate and fear of a company and it's CEO. I know seeing is believing and thankfully soon you will see and probably believe this was for the best as you navigate your EV in a couple years charging wherever you want with less wait times and less range anxiety. But until then, carry on...

I think there is still some push back because the plug is only half the equation. NACS doesn’t guarantee access to the supercharger network. And to the extent Rivian gets access to the network it will require ongoing agreements with Tesla, giving Tesla control, because as far as I know Tesla has not committed to making the supercharger network completely open outside of stalls that have a magic dock. Can you imagine how bad it would be for Rivian if it’s customers came to rely on the supercharger network and then five years down the line Rivian has to negotiate a renewal with Tesla for ongoing access? And if Rivian fails to it’s vehicles lose access to superchargers? That gives Tesla a massive amount of leverage.

The idea that NACS means “you can charge wherever you want” isn’t a certainty until the supercharger network is manufacturer agnostic, like the CCS network is, and doesn’t require ongoing agreement with manufacturers to maintain access.

Sponsored