Guide gave me an official R1S delay

[DJG]

The new RRS is sharp but at $105k it really underscores what a great deal the Rivian pre-March 1 pricing is. Land Rover also said the fully electric RRS is coming in 2024. That may save with no engine but will need more batteries so I doubt it will be any less than $95k.

I want Rivian to work but the collapse of the stock and continued delays make me nervous.

Like any other vehicle, the electric version will be $15-$20k more expensive, not less. And let's be real, JLR can't be saving more than about $75 on their "engines"....

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[DJG]

That's moving the goalposts. They claimed that the vehicle - including this feature - had been produced as of December 2021. If they didn't have that feature working as of December, then the claim was false.

Doesn't matter if nobody will ever use it, Rivian claimed the vehicle was production-ready back then, and didn't disclaim wading depth or any other feature. If they still hadn't figured it out back then, the claim was untrue.

I think you are revising history. They claimed production started last December, which is true, as we have seen two units out on public roads. The fact that you have a different definition of production (one that is immediately ramped without pause and without tweaking or change to the product) from Rivian does not make their claims untrue.

Regardless, no one should be wasting breath (keystrokes) based on a random internet comment obtained second hand by a mysterious employee.

 

[Max]

That's moving the goalposts. They claimed that the vehicle - including this feature - had been produced as of December 2021. If they didn't have that feature working as of December, then the claim was false.

Doesn't matter if nobody will ever use it, Rivian claimed the vehicle was production-ready back then, and didn't disclaim wading depth or any other feature. If they still hadn't figured it out back then, the claim was untrue.

Aside from the water thing, it always felt like they are still tweaking. Otherwise we would know this deep into delivery windows what it is we are buying. It is still like a unicorn a mortal has to own before we know what kind of spare tire or internal dimensions we are getting. If no one has gotten a test drive or seen one in an event, there must be things that are not finalized.

 

[DJG]

Aside from the water thing, it always felt like they are still tweaking. Otherwise we would know this deep into delivery windows what it is we are buying. It is still like a unicorn a mortal has to own before we know what kind of spare tire or internal dimensions we are getting. If no one has gotten a test drive or seen one in an event, there must be things that are not finalized.

Of course not, there are things on the R1T not finalized, it's just "good enough to ship". Soon the R1S will be in the same state, but not finished. In December it was good enough for RJ and Claire, now it's good enough for employees and after that, customers. Nothing nefarious or underhanded in it.

 

[Killer95Stang]

Regardless, no one should be wasting breath (keystrokes) based on a random internet comment obtained second hand by a mysterious employee.

100% correct... I really wish I could give proof, pics and maybe go a little more in-depth of what my neighbor talks about. Unfortunately, the internet forums pretty much turned into twitter. Peoples feelings get hurt and before you know it, my neighbor is interviewing at another company. Since most of posts are pretty much made up of opinion and speculations, I have no problem adding to the mix. You can believe it or not... that is why I emphasized it is my neighbors opinion. I've already posted pictures of various R1T's from my neighbors driveway, with my daughter in a few of them, so at the minimum, at least the part about him working there is true.

 

[Picard]

I do hope that tomorrow's call sheds some light on what the status of R1S production/delivery is. For the analysts out there who get to ask questions - make sure to ask specifically about the R1S!

 

[paariv]

I think you are revising history. They claimed production started last December, which is true, as we have seen two units out on public roads. The fact that you have a different definition of production (one that is immediately ramped without pause and without tweaking or change to the product) from Rivian does not make their claims untrue.

Regardless, no one should be wasting breath (keystrokes) based on a random internet comment obtained second hand by a mysterious employee.

That’s not what I said, though.

What I was saying is that it’s false to claim to have started making production vehicles (which they did claim) if you aren’t able to make one that has all of the announced production features (it seems from this that they couldn’t make one with the announced wading depth).

 

[KurtP]

I was willing to wait for my delivery sometime during the first half of 2023, however, my 13 year old mdx just was no longer reliable and really could not hold up any longer - so I ended up getting another Acura MDX (2022 type S Advance).
I wanted to get any EV SUV (with 300+ miles range), but within 50 miles of my home, there was nothing available.

I am now out of the EV market for at least the next 5 years - hopefully when I am ready again, Rivian will be even better and EVs will not be supply constrained.

I really liked this community and have a lot of respect for Rivian , hopefully they continue to grow and find efficiencies in manufacturing while delivering high quality.

 

[junkanoo]

I was willing to wait for my delivery sometime during the first half of 2023, however, my 13 year old mdx just was no longer reliable and really could not hold up any longer - so I ended up getting another Acura MDX (2022 type S Advance).
I wanted to get any EV SUV (with 300+ miles range), but within 50 miles of my home, there was nothing available.

I am now out of the EV market for at least the next 5 years - hopefully when I am ready again, Rivian will be even better and EVs will not be supply constrained.

I really liked this community and have a lot of respect for Rivian , hopefully they continue to grow and find efficiencies in manufacturing while delivering high quality.

Good luck with your Acura!

 

[DJG]

That’s not what I said, though.

What I was saying is that it’s false to claim to have started making production vehicles (which they did claim) if you aren’t able to make one that has all of the announced production features (it seems from this that they couldn’t make one with the announced wading depth).

A) it's wild speculation based on a single anonymous internet post whether that is true or not
B) Agree to disagree, if they have produced a vehicle and put ownership into a civilian's name (presumed to be the case given they have recognized the sale), production began, even if they never made a single one thereafter and regardless of what features it does or does not have that were advertised previously. You can claim (if the rumor was true) that the production version may not have all of the previously advertised features, but production has begun on some version of an R1S. It also doesn't have a removable roof and several other things previously advertised. At this point there could be any number of features eliminated from the final design that we will all learn about when deliveries are made.
C) none of this really matters and is a waste of energy

 

[paariv]

A) it's wild speculation based on a single anonymous internet post whether that is true or not
B) Agree to disagree, if they have produced a vehicle and put ownership into a civilian's name (presumed to be the case given they have recognized the sale), production began, even if they never made a single one thereafter and regardless of what features it does or does not have that were advertised previously. You can claim (if the rumor was true) that the production version may not have all of the previously advertised features, but production has begun on some version of an R1S. It also doesn't have a removable roof and several other things previously advertised. At this point there could be any number of features eliminated from the final design that we will all learn about when deliveries are made.
C) none of this really matters and is a waste of energy

Agreed on points 1 and point 3! I do not take the rumor as definitely true in any way, shape, or form. But it's believable given Rivian's track record.

Your point 2 is undermined by the following:

1. RJ and the CFO aren't really "civilians," and they're the only ones who've taken delivery to my knowledge.
2. Rivian itself doesn't consider the vehicles production-ready for external customers without the feature. I agree that they don't have to start an immediate ramp for vehicles to count as production (though not starting the ramp after building the first few "production" R1Ses indicates the early builds were, at best, a PR stunt). However, if they aren't able to start building customer vehicles because they cannot build them with features that they deem essential to customer deliveries (again, Rivian is the one delaying deliveries to work this out) then the early builds weren't indicative of what Rivian can produce, so shouldn't be talked about that way..
3. Regardless of this semantic debate about the meaning of "production," the December announcement that they'd produced 2 R1Ses was misleading. It implied that Rivian could start the R1S ramp at any time, even if they were choosing to delay it to focus on the R1T. Now it turns out (assuming the rumor is true) that they can't even start the R1S ramp, because they can't build vehicles to their own standard for customer-readiness.

I don't see a good defense for Rivian's statements here. At best they're technically non-false, but if this rumor is true, they're nonetheless misleading.

 

[DB-EV]

I was willing to wait for my delivery sometime during the first half of 2023, however, my 13 year old mdx just was no longer reliable and really could not hold up any longer - so I ended up getting another Acura MDX (2022 type S Advance).
I wanted to get any EV SUV (with 300+ miles range), but within 50 miles of my home, there was nothing available.

I am now out of the EV market for at least the next 5 years - hopefully when I am ready again, Rivian will be even better and EVs will not be supply constrained.

I really liked this community and have a lot of respect for Rivian , hopefully they continue to grow and find efficiencies in manufacturing while delivering high quality.

Sorry to hear. At some point I will be in your shoes. Family of 4, our only SUV is a 2011 CRV with 130k miles. My backup plan if I have to buy a second car if the CRV dies or needs 2k plus repair is to buy a hybrid highlander. To avoid forfeiting a deposit and 15k markups, I"d have to drive 3 hours away to pay msrp (looked into it over the winter). Other car is a small hatchback Impreza. I walk to train for work.

 

[Zoidz]

So in other words they haven't finished designing the R1S. You aren't done designing until you have finished testing, because if you fail the test you will have to revise the design.

Really makes you wonder how they were able to deliver the first "production" R1S last year if they still haven't finished designing it.

Not necessarily.

On crash testing, there is no formal requirement or regulation. Crash testing is done for consumer and insurance company ratings. I had read somewhere that crash testing is preferred to be done on "production line" vehicles to validate the assembly procedure, so for that reason they don't crash test prototypes or "hand built" pre-production vehicles. They presumably already have done plenty of FEA (Finite Element Analysis) software crash testing and pretty much know what the results should be of the real crash test. In theory, redesign for crash weakness was iterative during vehicle design. Crash testing provides a rating.

Similarly, the water test could be validating the assembly line finished product. Some hoods on R1Ts needed more adhesive - that wasn't a design failure, it was an assembly issue. If water testing of a production vehicle indicates they need a wider adhesive bead on all door seals, is that a design failure? Not in my book - it's just a assembly process modification. Reprogram the robot to apply thicker adheasive.

 

[Braindoc]

I have to admit, I am getting a bit frustrated by the repeated delays. I understand the chip shortages, etc., but why are they pumping out so many R1Ts then? Wasn't the R1S supposed to follow the R1T within 1-2 months? The SUV is actually supposed to be the wife's car and her minivan is pretty long in the tooth. I'm not excited about buying a temporary car to make due. I appreciate everyone here keeping us all up to date.

 

[mkg3]

.... I understand the chip shortages, etc., but why are they pumping out so many R1Ts then? ....

Because Rivian is doing best to not lose the preorders to F-150. Most people have reservation for both, and for more, but will only buy one.

There is no viable R1S competitor being ready for release until 2023 at the earliest so there is virtually no incentive for Rivian to build the SUV over the truck.

As a R1S reservation holder, I don't like it but I also understand it...

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