Failed R1T auction: High bid price of $85K doesn't meet reserve

[kayabusa]

This is not an unusual model for auctions. Hemmings has a 5% buyer's fee IIRC. Have you ever been to Barrett Jackson or Mecum? I would hope anyone considering bidding can do the math on the net cost.

To my understanding you go to Mecum or Barrett to buy unique vehicles that you cannot find anywhere else. Now, for a vehicle that you can find 198 today in autotrader, paying buyers fee is like donate money to a Drug Cartel..... just make no sense.

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[Count Orlok]

To my understanding you go to Mecum or Barrett to buy unique vehicles that you cannot find anywhere else. Now, for a vehicle that you can find 198 today in autotrader, paying buyers fee is like donate money to a Drug Cartel..... just make no sense.

hmmmm... perhaps bid with the fee in mind?

I would expect an auction where the buyer carries the transaction fee to result in a lower high bid as opposed to the sale price on autotrader where the seller covers the transaction fee. But then math is hard.

 

[Mathme]

I for one will wait for my turn in the Rivian Lotto because:

• Buying new will ensure the tax credits/write offs. People selling these used are surely taking advantage of these...so their profit margins are higher than listed on the sites. In CA, that will be almost $15k between state & Federal credits.
• Higher Production will likely have 'early wrinkles' worked out.
• As others have said buying new will also protect under lemon laws
• The economy will be different in H2 2023 when my delivery window is currently listed.

 

[Trandall]

The other reason why early build trucks are not getting top dollar is that most sensible people realize that there is more risk in buying an early VIN truck of the first generation and no upside. These are not collector cars. Having a launch edition badge or having a low VIN will not pay off down the road. You are better off getting a later VIN and having bugs worked out.

I believe I am at least marginally sensible but I think it remains to be seen if either of the first two assumptions are true. Buying a used R1 from someone reputable with any known quirks or issues either already fixed or stated before the sale could well be less risky than buying a new R1 with unknown issues from the factory. As far as having no upside also not necessarily true these first year R1's are built with a lot of "inefficiencies" and sold at a loss. Rivian will find ways to improve production and some of that will be cheapening the design. I think we are already beginning to see this for example no more 12v power in the frunk, cheaper LED's in the bed and gear tunnel...
I do tend to agree that the LE will not have collector value the same way a classic Camaro would.

 

[ironpig]

I believe I am at least marginally sensible but I think it remains to be seen if either of the first two assumptions are true. Buying a used R1 from someone reputable with any known quirks or issues either already fixed or stated before the sale could well be less risky than buying a new R1 with unknown issues from the factory. As far as having no upside also not necessarily true these first year R1's are built with a lot of "inefficiencies" and sold at a loss. Rivian will find ways to improve production and some of that will be cheapening the design. I think we are already beginning to see this for example no more 12v power in the frunk, cheaper LED's in the bed and gear tunnel...
I do tend to agree that the LE will not have collector value the same way a classic Camaro would.

The vast majority of EVs, except maybe the first Tesla Roadster, have no collector value. It's the same as an iPhone. Nobody wants an old iPhone - they want the latest and greatest tech. EVs are more desirable with the latest and greatest battery and charging architecture.

Unless maybe you take an R1T with a first 100 VIN and leave it wrapped and undriven in a warehouse for 20 years, there will be no added value for an older/early Rivian.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The other reason why early build trucks are not getting top dollar is that most sensible people realize that there is more risk in buying an early VIN truck of the first generation and no upside. These are not collector cars. Having a launch edition badge or having a low VIN will not pay off down the road. You are better off getting a later VIN and having bugs worked out.

My early VIN LE is having the bugs worked out at the service center right now. Front driver damper is being replaced along with some supporting hardware. I was getting a popping noise when turning and going over thresholds. Not the part I was expecting them to replace, but if it fixes the problem then I'm happy.

 

[jebinc]

I believe I am at least marginally sensible but I think it remains to be seen if either of the first two assumptions are true. Buying a used R1 from someone reputable with any known quirks or issues either already fixed or stated before the sale could well be less risky than buying a new R1 with unknown issues from the factory. As far as having no upside also not necessarily true these first year R1's are built with a lot of "inefficiencies" and sold at a loss. Rivian will find ways to improve production and some of that will be cheapening the design. I think we are already beginning to see this for example no more 12v power in the frunk, cheaper LED's in the bed and gear tunnel...
I do tend to agree that the LE will not have collector value the same way a classic Camaro would.

Couldn’t agree more, per my posts yesterday. Thank you, Sandy Munro, for saying these trucks were underpriced and for providing Rivian with a litany of ways to cheapen the whole car with profits in mind.

 

[mabowden]

The vast majority of EVs, except maybe the first Tesla Roadster, have no collector value. It's the same as an iPhone. Nobody wants an old iPhone - they want the latest and greatest tech. EVs are more desirable with the latest and greatest battery and charging architecture.

Unless maybe you take an R1T with a first 100 VIN and leave it wrapped and undriven in a warehouse for 20 years, there will be no added value for an older/early Rivian.

I don't agree with the iphone analogy.
If 90-95% of phones out in the public had worse features than an old iphone, people would still want an old iphone.
This truck is so far ahead of the competition that in 5 years it easily could still be faster and more capable than 90-95% of vehicles out there.... Also in 5 years I bet an R1T will be significantly more expensive, but we will see.

 

[ironpig]

I don't agree with the iphone analogy.
If 90-95% of phones out in the public had worse features than an old iphone, people would still want an old iphone.
This truck is so far ahead of the competition that in 5 years it easily could still be faster and more capable than 90-95% of vehicles out there.... Also in 5 years I bet an R1T will be significantly more expensive, but we will see.

you are completely missing the point. Yes used EVs have value, but they don’t increase their value as a result of being an early build EV. If you are choosing between 2 identical R1Ts today, you’d want VIN 15000 over VIN 150 because you know it’s likely better built.

In 5 years nobody is going to prefer a 2022 R1T over a 2027 R1T. Same with a model S. Nobody prefers a 2012 Model S over a 2017 Model S. Same with the iPhone.

 

[atebit]

Also not a truck, but an interesting and innovative vehicle that is relatively affordable. If you live in places with a lot of sunny days, and have a shorter commute, you may never need to plug in. The Jetson's look isn't everyone's cup of tea, but is for sure form-follows-function, so it has real purpose and IMO, actually kind of cool. Deliveries start next year and at the moment, there's only 25,000 in line ahead of you.

Aptera Motors

Actual video of the purchase process:

 

[jebinc]

I don't agree with the iphone analogy.
If 90-95% of phones out in the public had worse features than an old iphone, people would still want an old iphone.
This truck is so far ahead of the competition that in 5 years it easily could still be faster and more capable than 90-95% of vehicles out there.... Also in 5 years I bet an R1T will be significantly more expensive, but we will see.

What do you mean? The used market or continued MSRP hikes?

 

[mabowden]

What do you mean? The used market or continued MSRP hikes?

Continued MSRP hikes. It's a fact of life in the auto industry.

 

[Gabe1aron]

The used vehicle market is cooling and demand is decreasing. Exactly what the Fed has intended.

 

[zipzag]

The ongoing chip shortage is delaying the car market bust

 

[SASSquatch]

I am not convinced rates will come down much next year. The Wall Street experts were wrong on inflation (transitory) before and it is much stickier than expected.

Well bookmark this thread, grab the popcorn and let's see who's right in 6-8 months.

My feeling is that the recession is caused in large part to the fed overreacting to inflation which is being driven by disruptions in supply chain from COVID and from Ukraine which will largely be mitigated.

How long a slowdown lasts depends on how long it takes for them to start cutting back on interest rates again.

Mortgage rates were < 3% 8 months ago and they are > 7% today, so you can have a dramatic change in a short time if the market forces call for it.

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