EV Incentives ending on Sept 30? Any workaround?

[voxel]

Range anxiety isn't the issue it's frequency of stops and length of stops when driving longer distances is my beef with R1

I'm with you. Large battery EVs absolutely need 800V charging. Rivians charge far too slowly.

Sponsored

 

[atebit]

QED: https://www.usatoday.com/story/grap...g-beautiful-bill-car-tax-credits/84450714007/

 

[atebit]

Wrong. EREVs are EVs with a small and efficient ICE relegated to serving as a generator for electricity. Propulsion comes from the electric motors and the battery.

EREVs eliminate range anxiety, allow you to put a smaller battery in the vehicle saving weight and added cost. The battery size serves the 90% use case and the ICE electric generator serves the remaining 10% use case (long road trips, towing) without range anxiety.

They still use gas, hence the disgruntled cetacean. They move technology, business strategy and consumer’s hearts and minds in the wrong direction (backwards).

 

[ebellinder2]

I am still a believer on the importance of quality. Produce the R2 with near perfection so the owners do not have to experience the Rivian service offerings. Basically make it the most reliable and defect free EV on the road, they will sell incentive or not. People still pay for quality

 

[DBL-R]

Range anxiety isn't the issue it's frequency of stops and length of stops when driving longer distances is my beef with R1

And the third leg of the bar stool, the cost of charging while on the road.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

I’m not particularly worried about the R2 as long as Rivian can maintain the $45K starting price they promised. Don’t forget that some states like California and Colorado have their own tax credits. I recall California said they would up their credit to match the $7500 taken away by the feds. However, I haven’t heard any update on that since the bill was passed.

 

[iansriv]

I am still a believer on the importance of quality. Produce the R2 with near perfection so the owners do not have to experience the Rivian service offerings. Basically make it the most reliable and defect free EV on the road, they will sell incentive or not. People still pay for quality

So, the Lexus of EVs. I like your idea. It solves the SC wait time etc by focusing more on quality at the source. Brilliant!

 

[Weck]

And the third leg of the bar stool, the cost of charging while on the road.

In my experience charging the R1T on the road is still less expensive than filling up my old v8 Grand Cherokee on the same trips. A "full tank" at a supercharger here at 0.46/kwh runs around $66 bucks, versus filling up the 21 gallon tank of the SUV at $3.42 / gallon being $72, and both vehicles have a 370 ish real world range when full.

Obviously in reality, you charge up before you leave and at your destination. Last trip I did up north 5 hour drive I hit a supercharger for $22 just in case I couldn't charge at my destination, and I needed to get groceries anyway. Whole round trip including the fast charge and charging both ends was about half what it would have cost for gas.

 

[SASSquatch]

They still use gas, hence the disgruntled cetacean. They move technology, business strategy and consumer’s hearts and minds in the wrong direction (backwards).

I hear you and in a perfect world we'd waive a wand and eliminate fossil fuels - but that isn't happening and we have to work with the constraints imposed by consumer behavior. At a point where EV infrastructure is woefully behind where it needs to be to accommodate mass adoption of EVs, and EVs are still at a price premium over ICE vehicles, something has to give.

The concept behind an EREV is that you can reduce the most expensive cost of the EV (the battery) by incorporating an ICE as a generator and using a smaller battery. IMHO, EREVs are a necessary bridge to move people to EVs and to allow EV charging infrastructure to catch up. It introduces the buyer to the huge positives of an EV (80-90% daily driving on 0 fossil fuels, regenerative braking, low maintenance, etc.) while removing the largest impediments to EV ownership (cost, and lack of infrastructure).

EREVs are way better than plug-in hybrids and arguably hybrids because those systems use two powertrains (electric and ICE) where as the EREV only uses electric. On paper, EREVs should be an overall more efficient system than either a plug-in hybrid or a straight hybrid and the costs should be significantly lower than an EV that would need a very large expensive battery to obtain the same range as an EREV.

Big batteries that provide big range (with the exception of very specific use cases like towing) are extremely inefficient especially considering you are carrying all that extra weight for range you don't typically need for daily driving. The bigger the battery, the less efficient it is. An ICE relegated to generator duty can be small and extremely efficient since it only needs to operate in a very narrow RPM range.

A smaller battery which is more than sufficient for daily driving paired with an ICE generator to provide extended range when encountering the 10% use case of road trips and towing is still dramatically reducing fossil fuel consumption, lowering the bar of entry, and overcoming a significant psychological hurdle that the average consumer has to purchasing an EV.

EREVs will play a significant role in transitioning us away from ICE and any OEM would be smart to incorporate an EREV into their lineup (spoiler alert - almost all of them are).

 

[DBL-R]

In my experience charging the R1T on the road is still less expensive than filling up my old v8 Grand Cherokee on the same trips. A "full tank" at a supercharger here at 0.46/kwh runs around $66 bucks, versus filling up the 21 gallon tank of the SUV at $3.42 / gallon being $72, and both vehicles have a 370 ish real world range when full.

Obviously in reality, you charge up before you leave and at your destination. Last trip I did up north 5 hour drive I hit a supercharger for $22 just in case I couldn't charge at my destination, and I needed to get groceries anyway. Whole round trip including the fast charge and charging both ends was about half what it would have cost for gas.

For comparison, I recently completed a trip from Denver to Tulsa about 700+ miles each way, with charging to 100% prior to leaving we charged four times along the way. With charging costs ranging from $0.39 to $0.59 kWh. I estimate that we consumed 298 kWh at $0.50/kWh, or roughly $149 each way. If we would have drove my wife’s 24 Passport averaging 25 miles/gallon at $3.00/gallon, we would have spent $84 in gasoline

 

[Thedude]

They still use gas, hence the disgruntled cetacean. They move technology, business strategy and consumer’s hearts and minds in the wrong direction (backwards).

I’d argue it’s just the opposite. Once they experience an EV drivetrain and how much of a better experience it is compared to an ICE drivetrain would want to go back. An EREV lets someone experiment with electric without the mind games of range anxiety, charge availability, etc. They also can put 2-3 times as many clean emission vehicles on the road for the same battery material cost of a single BEV.

On top of that it opens up the entire country to electrification, not just population centers and travel routes. If I still owned my R1T I’d also have to own another truck because there just isn’t the infrastructure (and won’t be) to support it here in Alaska. Give me an EREV option and I’d be driving electric everyday to work and for errands and then tapping into the gas motor several times a month for trips to where there is no electricity.

 

[RivAW]

Not sure why you question the R2 launch. They are well on track for the R2, and appear well positioned to capture a significant market with it. It sounds like you are not a fan of the company at all. If you don't like their vehicles, their tech, their features, and how the company is being run - why are you here on this forum? Seems odd. Do you regret your R1T?

Where do you think their workforce should be? What are you considering 'nonessential' employees?

What do you see as a better alternative EV with better range and tech features? Honestly, with the possible exception of the new Scout, there is nothing else out there I would consider

I don't believe that the death of the incentives will hurt Rivian all that much. I am just personally hoping there is still some way to get that credit. I will still buy an R2. I would buy one today if I could. The price on the R2 is a sweet spot - assuming they can keep it close to that starting point.

Why would you hope “there is somenwaybtinfet

Just read that the new spending bill removes EV tax credit and other clean energy incentives.
Is there any workaround for this?
The R2 is too far away.

(Glad I installed solar panels and batteries last year…)

No. The Federally funded incentives are ending, not changing qualifications….so there is no “work around” other than to make your purchase and take delivery before the end date or hope that either Rivian or individual States offer programs or incentives to make up the difference

 

[mkg3]

So, the Lexus of EVs. I like your idea. It solves the SC wait time etc by focusing more on quality at the source. Brilliant!

If it was that easy, Rivian would have done it already.

On a new vehicle, first time production, there is little to no chance that the R2 quality will exceed current R1 quality, initially. I hope I am wrong on this...

 

[mkg3]

...No. The Federally funded incentives are ending, not changing qualifications….so there is no “work around” other than to make your purchase and take delivery before the end date or hope that either Rivian or individual States offer programs or incentives to make up the difference

its this...

Sponsored