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Energy Displays

How do you want energy information/consumption/efficiency displayed?


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SlaterGS

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I've held back on any comments to let people respond but I am as interested in why people responded the way they did as in how they responded. I think the preference, if there is one, must be determined by how one uses the information so if you wouldn't mind expanding a bit on that aspect of it I'd appreciate it. An example or two of how you actually use the mi/kWh number would be appreciated.
My Leaf always displays 2 things relating to energy on the display directly behind the steering wheel.
  1. SOC - Level of Charge as a percentage (0-100%)
  2. Estimated Range in miles or km
Rivian R1T R1S Energy Displays 1633695908620


I can choose on this same display to show additional energy information such as mi/kWh as an average and instantaneous but the first two are there regardless.
Rivian R1T R1S Energy Displays 1633695963261

These two are all I need for the majority of the time, but seeing something like mi/kWh can be useful when I'm trying to evaluate driving efficiency and calculating the "true" range that you might have available to you. The display in the center has even more options to see energy consumption.
Rivian R1T R1S Energy Displays 1633696066896


The "why" to my response that they should have any and all of these options is because it is simple to do. They have the data and Nissan has been showing it since 2011, why can't Rivian in 2021?
Give us visual to the data they already have and allow us to choose what is most useful to us as clearly we all use it a little differently.

There are two reasons why Rivian doesn't 't have more energy consumption display options.
  1. They haven't had the time to program these into their software. - This is most likely and I imagine many/all of the things we would like to see will come OTA before too long.
  2. They want to control the data given to the end user because they feel they know what is best or they don't want to give an expectation with one set of data and someone be left stranded because of it. - Think Android and Apple. Apple tends to go the route of saying they know what is best and that is what you will get. Android gives you options. This is also a pretty likely scenario based on what I have seen from Rivian thus far. Question will be how "locked down" are they going to be?
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Trandall

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This will be my first EV so I will be adapting no matter how it ends up being displayed. I do find it helpful to know instantaneous consumption so for that WH/M. seems fitting.
To answer @ajdelange curiosity I think this quote from another thread is very accurate:
Your average person has no clue what a KWh is or how any of it applies to them. They just want to know how many miles/km they can drive.
The % reference is OK to many as it’s the same as looking at a fuel gauge. “OK, battery 3/4 full”, me drive. Unga bunga…
Unfortunately the average American is math averse or has limited ability to convert between units.
To be frank when I'm road tripping navigating unfamiliar roads, driving "spiritedly" while blasting music I'm probably in the "Unga Bunga" camp... me have juice, me drive. Other times I will like to know clearly how environmental factors, my driving, battery health, etc. are affecting my consumption and range.
On a side note I hope their is a way to view battery stats like temperature, pack voltage (module V even better) and consumption by drive module (front/ rear), basically if their is an instrument that is measuring something let me view its output because why not?
 

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An example or two of how you actually use the mi/kWh number would be appreciated.
On a road trip when determining how much range I can expect on the remaining charge and whether I can speed up/slow down to get to the next charger. I use the Tesla trip energy graph in coordination with it.

Full pack capacity = 67 kWh
50% charge remaining = 33.5
Mi/kWh = 4
M
range to zero = 134 miles

If I need to go 100 miles, I can speed up a bit.

It’s not a perfect system but it works for me.
 

Jamuso

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On a road trip when determining how much range I can expect on the remaining charge and whether I can speed up/slow down to get to the next charger. I use the Tesla trip energy graph in coordination with it.

Full pack capacity = 67 kWh
50% charge remaining = 33.5
Mi/kWh = 4
M
range to zero = 134 miles

If I need to go 100 miles, I can speed up a bit.

It’s not a perfect system but it works for me.
thank you for this. As someone new to EV's very helpful example!
 
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ajdelange

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On a road trip when determining how much range I can expect on the remaining charge and whether I can speed up/slow down to get to the next charger. I use the Tesla trip energy graph in coordination with it.

Full pack capacity = 67 kWh
50% charge remaining = 33.5
Mi/kWh = 4
M
range to zero = 134 miles

If I need to go 100 miles, I can speed up a bit.

It’s not a perfect system but it works for me.
Wouldn't it be easier to note that if the battery is full that gives you 4*67 = 268 miles and that when it is half full the remaining range is half that?
 

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SlaterGS

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Wouldn't it be easier to note that if the battery is full that gives you 4*67 = 268 miles and that when it is half full the remaining range is half that?
If my average mi/KwH on the display is 4 and that has been calculated over the past 1000 miles, but my current on a given highway and for the last 30 miles is 3 because I'm going 80mph, then running the calculation like McMoo mentioned is very helpful.
 
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ajdelange

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thank you for this. As someone new to EV's very helpful example!
Wouldn't it be easier to note that if the battery is full that gives you 4*67 = 268 miles and that when it is half full the remaining range is half that?
As this has the potential to help a new guy I'll expand. You new Rivian will come with an EPA rated mileage of 316. That's nominally how far the car will go on a full charge if you drive nominally. That means normally. That does not mean in desert heat at 85 mph into a 40 mph head wind uphill whilst towing a trailer. That means driving a mix of town, country and freeway. You will also get (we hope) a battery charge indicator that displays the useable charge remaining in the battery. Put these two together and you are in a position to manage charge trivially. Each percent of battery gives you, nominally, 3.16 miles. If you have 42% battery left you can go 126 + 8 miles further. Note that I multiplied 3 times 42 and then .2 times 42 as that makes it easy to do in your head whilst driving. Battery at 3/4 (75%) - range at 3/4 the EPA range. This really puts us on the same basis as we all learned with a gas gauge in the the days of ICE.

There are layers of nuance beyond this simple approach. For example, your driving style and the places you drive will influence the rate at which you take energy out of your battery. In the example here the numbers imply that the nominal comsumption is 250 Wh/mi. If one drives in such fashion or in such places that his consumption is greater or less than that the available range will change. Tesla, as an example, gives the driver displays of realized consumption since last charge, for each trip, for time period since trip odometers were set and in real time graphs. If one is interested in such things they can be very illuminating as to your driving style, helpful in planning trips, determining how much charge to add at a charger etc.
 
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ajdelange

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If my average mi/KwH on the display is 4 and that has been calculated over the past 1000 miles, but my current on a given highway and for the last 30 miles is 3 because I'm going 80mph, then running the calculation like McMoo mentioned is very helpful.
Well surely. It's just easier to do it based on mi/% rather than mi/KWh. Actually it's easiest to do it based on %/mi or Wh/mi which is what the poll is about. If his nominal is 250 Wh/mi (what his Tesla will show) which is 4 mi/kWh and it jumps to 333 Wh/mi (what his Tesla would show) which is 3 kWh/mi he knows right away that his % consumption per mile is 4/3 of what it was and that his estimated range will be 3/4 of nominal.

Actually it isn't necessary to do any of this mental stuff (though it does help to pass the miles) as the Teslas have an excellent display (which he referred to) which keeps track of energy history, apparently uses some sort of weighted average of that history for prediction and takes terrain into account to come up with estimated SoC (in %) at the destination which estimate is updated continuously. The ultimate energy management question is "Will I have a comfortable state of charge at destination?" If, at any point during a journey, the answer to that becomes "No" the one can take action (slow down) to see if that fixes things. I think what we Tesla drivers are praying for is that Rivian is going to give us the equivalent of this display. Right now I'd say it isn't looking good but there is still the possibility we might get it in an OTA update.
 

Jamuso

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As this has the potential to help a new guy I'll expand. You new Rivian will come with an EPA rated mileage of 316. That's nominally how far the car will go on a full charge if you drive nominally. That means normally. That does not mean in desert heat at 85 mph into a 40 mph head wind uphill whilst towing a trailer. That means driving a mix of town, country and freeway. You will also get (we hope) a battery charge indicator that displays the useable charge remaining in the battery. Put these two together and you are in a position to manage charge trivially. Each percent of battery gives you, nominally, 3.16 miles. If you have 42% battery left you can go 126 + 8 miles further. Note that I multiplied 3 times 42 and then .2 times 42 as that makes it easy to do in your head whilst driving. Battery at 3/4 (75%) - range at 3/4 the EPA range. This really puts us on the same basis as we all learned with a gas gauge in the the days of ICE.

There are layers of nuance beyond this simple approach. For example, your driving style and the places you drive will influence the rate at which you take energy out of your battery. In the example here the numbers imply that the nominal comsumption is 250 Wh/mi. If one drives in such fashion or in such places that his consumption is greater or less than that the available range will change. Tesla, as an example, gives the driver displays of realized consumption since last charge, for each trip, for time period since trip odometers were set and in real time graphs. If one is interested in such things they can be very illuminating as to your driving style, helpful in planning trips, determining how much charge to add at a charger etc.
Thank you for the additional explanation. It's very helpful. What i was trying to do as step one is to relate it to what i've been used to for the last 35 years. Once I'm comfortable with that - the nuances you describe - i'll get more into and be able to better understand how & where & when I drive affects things. I'm happy to be doing all this learning while i wait for my R1T!
 

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I might be a simpleton, but just give me this and a trip meter. I've managed a million+ miles like this with no problem. I don't see how going electric instead of ICE makes this that much more complicated.

Rivian R1T R1S Energy Displays ?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP
 

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ajdelange

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I might be a simpleton, but just give me this ...
Just put the % SoC number on there and I'm with you.

...and a trip meter.
The real question here is as to whether you want the trip meter to read in Wh/mi or mi/kWh.

I've managed a million+ miles like this with no problem. I don't see how going electric instead of ICE makes this that much more complicated.
You will! The reason BEV makes it more complicated is that with ICE there is a gas station on every corner. Even with the Telsa network that's not the case and the CCS network is way behind the Tesla network.
 

Speedrye

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The real question here is as to whether you want the trip meter to read in Wh/mi or mi/kWh.
Neither, I just want miles since I last reset it.

You will! The reason BEV makes it more complicated is that with ICE there is a gas station on every corner. Even with the Telsa network that's not the case and the CCS network is way behind the Tesla network.
99%+ of my driving will be powered by charging from home. The occasional beach trip is only 200 miles each way, so that should be easy too. The only concern I've got is the rare 1,000-mile trip to Maine, and I suspect you're very right in that case, and I'd want to analyze every mile of range. Making matters worse is that I'm one of those people that like to drive non-stop and don't like stopping for food, gas, restroom, or anything else unless it's absolutely necessary. I think I'm going to have to let go of that mentality on long trips anyway since I've got a young kid now. Might as well charge the vehicle when we stop for potty/snack breaks.
 

Trandall

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Just put the % SoC number on there and I'm with you.

The real question here is as to whether you want the trip meter to read in Wh/mi or mi/kWh.

You will! The reason BEV makes it more complicated is that with ICE there is a gas station on every corner. Even with the Telsa network that's not the case and the CCS network is way behind the Tesla network.
And most importantly we need something to vigorously debate for the next 6 months while we are waiting for our trucks. Especially since the launch green cat is out of the bag.
 

Speedrye

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And most importantly we need something to vigorously debate for the next 6 months while we are waiting for our trucks. Especially since the launch green cat is out of the bag.
Well, we can't really have endless "which oil is better" debates like most automotive forums, so we need to find something to debate!
 

Trandall

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For whatever strange reason I enjoy optimizing my driving efficiency and look forward to strategizing charging stops on long trips.
I cringe when I ride with my wife she goes from the gas directly to the brakes every time we need to slow down or stop! Doesn't she know the car will coast for peat sake!
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