Dont mess with the PWS on your EV.

[eggpaul]

I haven’t gotten to drive an R1 yet so I don‘t know. Maybe those trucks were pre-production and didn’t have a functioning PWS?

I am pretty sure it wasn't functioning. It was so quiet during the offroading portion. I don't really mind the noise though. Not that bad.

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[iansriv]

As I said In an earlier post I understand the frustration. It doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of people who rely on sound because they need to.

When I was 22 I was driving to work one rainy fall morning. I worked for a school district in their administration office. I was driving a Dodge Daytona in a very bright metallic electric blue (close to Rivian Blue) with headlights on because it was raining. As I was pulling into the driveway of the administration building, there was a school bus parked against the right curb in a no parking zone. My car had a stick shift and I was in 1st gear doing something under 10 miles an hour. Just as the front of my car got to the front of the parked bus, someone ran out from in front of the bus, saw my bright blue car with headlights on, and tried to stop, but he slipped on the wet pavement and/or leaves and fell with a loud WHACK! against the side of the car.

I had already come to a stop, but when I got out of my car to see this older guy on the ground against my car I froze for a second as my brain processed the what-ifs. People boiled out of the building and it was quickly discovered that the bus driver seemed okay and it was just his shin hitting the passenger door of my car which made the loud noise. The paramedics and police came. One of the older secretaries came out, asked me if I was okay and I just lost it, crying. What if I’d killed this guy?!?!

He ended up being fine and everyone told me it wasn’t my fault. He shouldn’t have been parked there at all. He shouldn’t have been running out from behind his bus. I was driving safely: slowly and with headlights on. None of that mattered to me. If I’d hurt or killed him I would’ve always felt responsible and I don’t want to experience that feeling ever again.

I guess people can see two sides of this story. Some would say that all the safety devices in the world can’t save stupid people who are not paying attention. Others would say that the reality of causing harm to someone, even a complete stranger, is too great a burden to risk altering mandating safety equipment. These two things don’t have to be mutually exclusive so I’d always go with leaving the safety equipment in place to give me the clearest conscience.

I apologise if I mislead you into thinking I don't care about others. Quite the contrary-I would put pedestrian safety over any desire to mod the car. I defer to the experts at Rivian to install the appropriate safety measures on the car. The world could do with a bit more caring and compassion. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm glad no one got hurt.

 

[lostpacket]

My problem with the PWS on EV's and hybrids is that it started as legislation brought on mostly by the anti-EV crowd. It was initially, and still continues to be, a means of obstruction and more red tape to getting more EVs to market.

It's completely ridiculous that the NHTSA doesn't target *ALL* vehicles with these requirements. Many newer ICE vehicles are just as quiet as EVs, especially when trolling parking lots or rolling through residential streets. Audible noises are not the only factors for noticing vehicles. Some pedestrians just don't pay attention. Many have their faces glued to their phones and/or have earbuds blocking out everything around them. I've had more people step out in front of my diesel F-250 than any other vehicle I currently own. And it's always been that way... Pedestrians and people in small cars just love to move in front of a truck.

The NHTSA data on all this is fine, but incomplete. They're not acknowledging the vast majority of pedestrians hit by vehicles in low speed situations still occur with ICE cars. Both in number and in scaled percentages as most EVs already have enhanced safety features. It has been questioned in NHTSA proceedings why the warning systems are not being targeted at all vehicles even though most newer cars operate quietly. Tesla and a few others have pointed out several ICE cars that operate below the NTHSA's own determined decibel threshold for needing the warning system. And yet, they continue to only push it for hybrid/EV vehicles.

I'm glad my 2020 Model Y does not have the PWS...

I wish that it could be disabled in the Rivian for off-road use. I find it interesting that in several reviews and demo drives there is no PWS system engaged and all the talk about how quiet the truck is. Well, that's not really the case.

The National Federation for the Blind and American Council for the Blind are anti-ev? Is that really what you're saying?

The Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010 passed the Senate by unanimous consent and the House by 379 to 30 and was signed into law by Obama. All of them were anti-EV too?

What makes the NHTSA data "incomplete"?

What are these ICE cars that are quieter than the rule, can you name one?

Can you even say what the decibel threshold is?

Do you read cleantechnica by any chance? I am beginning to suspect that's where these unsourced BS talking points are coming from.

For the unaware cleantechnica is a Tesla shill blog disguised as green media. They often talk smack about the NHTSA to defend Tesla.

 

[SeaGeo]

Btw the issue I was solving for here is that it is so loud it wakes up the neighbor who lives directly above my garage space, and I was trying to make that less of an issue.

In the end you’re right and I should be more concerned with people who depend on audio queues to know their surroundings. I am sorry, despite the title of this regrettable thread.

I suspect most of the uproar here wasn't targeted at you taping it at all, but others inquiring about pulling the fuse. (Speaking for myself at least)

 

[SASSquatch]

Well, something like that. The loss of that visceral sound is part of the reason performance EVs just... connect a little less with the soul.

What EV's lack in connection to the soul they gain in their connection to your cervical spine.

 

[SASSquatch]

Sure but there is something to be said for the fact that in that case the state is (mostly*) protecting people from themselves, whereas here it's protecting people from other people.

The point I am making is that irrespective of who is saving who, data (even when it is devastating to one side's argument) isn't always enough to result in legislators doing the right thing. Otherwise, lobbying groups wouldn't exist.

In this instance, I am unaware of an anti-PWS lobbying group, but judging from some of the views expressed in this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have a few future members in our midst...

 

[Cactusone]

If you want to save lives, stop speeding. Nah…says everybody.

 

[Zoidz]

As someone who used to be a member [technical] of one of the associations listed above, do not assume making comments equates to 'acceptance' or 'agreement'. In some cases, it means 'let's propose something technically valid, but less cost before the politician mandates something impossible to technically achieve or costs 10x what it should for the same result' I do believe safety is critical, but if not done properly, can actually do more harm than good. I have seen consultants 'fix' 1 safety issue and add 5 more without them realizing it. I think a pedestrian alert system and a alternative 'nature' temp mode could work, but it sounds like NTSHA never considered this use case, probably because at the time this requirement was drafted, no off road EV applications existed. The problem with big regulations is they never catch all use cases, especially when the people who draft them are not experts. I am betting at the time this requirement was drafted, Rivian was not at the table.

I also speak from experience. I have provided engineering comments to the FDA regarding techniques for the control and monitoring of plant floor automation systems that ensure public health via pasteurization and sterilization.

Refocusing, I was addressing the original blanket comment regarding "written by politicians, not scientists/engineers." which is patently false. If he said "influenced by" or similar, I'd have no problem with it.

The PSEA was written by politicians, not scientists/engineers.

 

[koersontap]

My interpretation is that you want your vehicle (Rivian) to make less noise when that noise safeguards others and you want your vehicle (motorcycle) to make more noise when that noise safeguards you.

Is that a fair summary?

 

[koersontap]

My problem with the PWS on EV's and hybrids is that it started as legislation brought on mostly by the anti-EV crowd. It was initially, and still continues to be, a means of obstruction and more red tape to getting more EVs to market.

It's completely ridiculous that the NHTSA doesn't target *ALL* vehicles with these requirements. Many newer ICE vehicles are just as quiet as EVs, especially when trolling parking lots or rolling through residential streets. Audible noises are not the only factors for noticing vehicles. Some pedestrians just don't pay attention. Many have their faces glued to their phones and/or have earbuds blocking out everything around them. I've had more people step out in front of my diesel F-250 than any other vehicle I currently own. And it's always been that way... Pedestrians and people in small cars just love to move in front of a truck.

The NHTSA data on all this is fine, but incomplete. They're not acknowledging the vast majority of pedestrians hit by vehicles in low speed situations still occur with ICE cars. Both in number and in scaled percentages as most EVs already have enhanced safety features. It has been questioned in NHTSA proceedings why the warning systems are not being targeted at all vehicles even though most newer cars operate quietly. Tesla and a few others have pointed out several ICE cars that operate below the NTHSA's own determined decibel threshold for needing the warning system. And yet, they continue to only push it for hybrid/EV vehicles.

I'm glad my 2020 Model Y does not have the PWS...

I wish that it could be disabled in the Rivian for off-road use. I find it interesting that in several reviews and demo drives there is no PWS system engaged and all the talk about how quiet the truck is. Well, that's not really the case.

See, I can see some room here for getting lost in the nuance. IMO, you're right with most of your points, but leave the best part out in your takeaway.

So a newer ICE car can be just as quiet as an EV, but the EV has to have the "annoying sound". Got it. The conclusion here *should* be that perhaps we need to instead change the rules or regulations to make the ICE car require those too. *NOT* to complain about the EV needing them. The point here isn't to inconvenience people, it's to keep people safer, and the beauty of this system is it doesn't really matter if they're paying attention or not. I mean, is every person on here disparaging "distracted pedestrians" going to sit there and say honestly that they have *never* - not once - been distracted while walking? Talking on the phone? Trying to locate your Uber? Just been a hectic day and you have too much on your mind, and can't focus? Because all it just takes one single time, and this device is protecting you, too.

And if your complaint is really that it makes off-roading too noisy, where you want to enjoy nature, go buy one of those quiet ICE vehicles to off-road in. Or get out and hike a mile. But this is not the hill to die on here.

 

[Blueassassin]

The part I don't get is all the hybrids like mine done make any noise when driving around in a parking lot and has been just fine. I pay attention and have had plenty of times people walked right in front of me but that has been no different from any other vehicle I have owned. Shouldn't it be put on all hybrids as well if the motor isn't running if it really is this beneficial?

I do wish we could change the sound and be able to turn it off say if we are driving through a national park and trying to not scare the animals. Off-roading needing a spotter and your trying to hear him telling you instructions. plenty of times i can think of I wouldn't want the sound.

 

[E.S.]

... but the EV has to have the "annoying sound ...

Maybe it should have a loud voice yelling "HEY, MuthaPhucker! I'm driving here!"

 

[OldGoat]

I don't know if I've ever read a thread that included so many examples of logical fallacies.

 

[22RivianCDH]

I am an active member on several forums...ICE forums and EV forums lije this one...I enjoy sharing our stories and insights on the vehicles we own....trouble shooting and providing an opporunity to provide feedback to each other and the manufacturers to improve our vehicles....I have come to expect the heated discussions on the ICE forums I belong to...usually most heated arguments eventually digress into saying "Let's go Brandon" or some reason why Obama took their gun or gave their child access to healthier foods at school...I have been on the wrong side of many discussions...usually it involves my ego refusing to listen to all sides of an issue....I am interested in becoming educated so when I hear another side of a position that makes more sense....I reflect and revise my thinking.
Another member on the forum suggested that if you have a problem with a speaker on your Rivian making a sound...try being blind for a day and getting around ....that point is simply brilliant...walk in someone else's shoes, then decide if the rules are helping someone or hurting you...
I was surprised that my Rivian was making an audible noise that others could hear...most of them thought it was cool ....others, including the parents on the street we live on...really liked being able to hear a vehicle coming down the street with a little advance notice ....My neighbor has a Tesla Plaid...some of the parents think he drives too fast in our neighborhood...he doesn't...the issue is his car is almost silent until it is about a house away from you...the surprise factor is at work here...We have kids and dogs (mostly free range) that are playing and riding bikes and pets are in front yards and often cross the streets to check out someone across the street...Should parents watch their children and pets closely? Of course, but the collective neighborhood decided that our street would be a playground...And we also have special needs child @ 16 yrs old that lives on our street...I have owned my Rivian for @ 1 month...and most neighbors have made a point to say they appreciate the noise my rivian makes...a very small price to pay for helping make our streets safer for everyone. Cheers!

 

[ironpig]

I don't know if I've ever read a thread that included so many examples of logical fallacies.

It's been incredibly helpful in one way - my "ignore" button is getting a lot of use.

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