Did you cancel your Lightning reservation?

[Max]

Just got an invitation from Ford to order. Will ignore and wait for R1S.

Sponsored

 

[EVTrucking]

I have canceled my Lightning reservation. Too expensive for what you get and my current crap experience with Ford for delivery of an MME I ordered in July. If Ford does not find my MME very soon I will walk away from it.

I will wait for a R1T.

 

[Crotchetyoldfart]

I have canceled my Lightning reservation. Too expensive for what you get and my current crap experience with Ford for delivery of an MME I ordered in July. If Ford does not find my MME very soon I will walk away from it.

I will wait for a R1T.

Is your experience with the Rivian really any better? I know that I've been misled more by Rivian and put on hold for a lot longer with more $ held by the company.

Let's be real. These are all new, relatively unproven vehicles where demand way outstrips supply. There are going to be a lot of unhappy potential customers. The manufacturers are in a difficult position: No matter what they decide, they will make a few people happy and many unhappy. Right now, I am far more unhappy with Rivian (11/18 deposit: Explorer Max Pack) than I am with Ford (5/19, 9:34 EST).

I do believe in Ford's ability to build a quality vehicle in larger numbers than I do in Rivian. I still expect to get a Lightning far sooner than a R1T.

 

[EVTrucking]

Is your experience with the Rivian really any better? I know that I've been misled more by Rivian and put on hold for a lot longer with more $ held by the company.

Let's be real. These are all new, relatively unproven vehicles where demand way outstrips supply. There are going to be a lot of unhappy potential customers. The manufacturers are in a difficult position: No matter what they decide, they will make a few people happy and many unhappy. Right now, I am far more unhappy with Rivian (11/18 deposit: Explorer Max Pack) than I am with Ford (5/19, 9:34 EST).

I do believe in Ford's ability to build a quality vehicle in larger numbers than I do in Rivian. I still expect to get a Lightning far sooner than a R1T.

I agree that Ford can and will out produce Rivian over the next 2-3 yrs.

My issue with Ford is that they have insulated themselves from their customers and wedged in the middle is the dealership.

Ford notified me 12/22/21 that my car was at dealer and ready for payment. The car is not at the dealer and Ford does not provide the dealers with anymore information than they do to the customer. It has been a month now and many fruitless calls, emails, letters and texts to Ford and my dealer confirmed once again today that they have no idea what happened to it. Literally no idea! The dealer is adamant the car was not stolen.

IMO Rivian’s performance is totally in line with expectations for a startup especially in this covid tainted world.

My current experience with Ford indicates that you will have numerous delays, little to no communication and if there is a hitch the dealership will be useless. The dealership will provide conflicting information and increase frustration exponentially.

Ford does not know how to do internet sales that by law require third party privately owned dealerships to be involved.

 

[emoore]

Is your experience with the Rivian really any better? I know that I've been misled more by Rivian and put on hold for a lot longer with more $ held by the company.

Let's be real. These are all new, relatively unproven vehicles where demand way outstrips supply. There are going to be a lot of unhappy potential customers. The manufacturers are in a difficult position: No matter what they decide, they will make a few people happy and many unhappy. Right now, I am far more unhappy with Rivian (11/18 deposit: Explorer Max Pack) than I am with Ford (5/19, 9:34 EST).

I do believe in Ford's ability to build a quality vehicle in larger numbers than I do in Rivian. I still expect to get a Lightning far sooner than a R1T.

Seems like you should just get the F150 then. I'm all for more EVs but I think you might get a Rivian sooner than the F150 unless you are willing to pay more than MSRP for the Lightning.

 

[Forager]

Still have my 5/19 Lightning reservation, but it’s frustrating not getting anything from the dealer or Ford. For many reasons, I’ve pretty much decided to keep my old ICE F150 and pursue the R1S. The F150 is better at the things I need a truck for, and the R1S is a perfect all arounder.

 

[Crotchetyoldfart]

Seems like you should just get the F150 then. I'm all for more EVs but I think you might get a Rivian sooner than the F150 unless you are willing to pay more than MSRP for the Lightning.

I reserved within 3 minutes of the Ford announcement. While not in waves 1 or 2, I strongly suspect that I will be offered a F150 in Q3 2022. Rivian has told me 1H 2023. I'm thinking the Ford estimate is more accurate and certainly sooner. My Ford dealer has guaranteed that they do not add any fees or ADM. I am not sure when or if the Max pack will ever be delivered.

The F150 is better at the things I need a truck for, and the R1S is a perfect all arounder.

Definitely! Range, power, gear tunnel and probably driving favor the Rivian. Interior and bed sizes, frunk and ability to get it worked on anywhere favor the Ford. Life is full of compromises.

My issue with Ford is that they have insulated themselves from their customers and wedged in the middle is the dealership.

Legacy issues! I am sure that Ford has a love hate relationship with their dealers. Good or bad, they are stuck with it. Their control over their dealers is limited: They have federal and 50 different state laws to comply with, probably hundreds of different existing contracts, not to mention at least as many personalities. Every dealer (owner) I ever met was either fiercely independent, a total a$$ or both.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Looking at the Lightning forum and it appears that Ford is pulling a Tesla. They ’offered’ the $40K Pro model in very limited numbers. Everyone trying to order in the 2nd wave is discovering that it’s sold out.

 

[Crotchetyoldfart]

Looking at the Lightning forum and it appears that Ford is pulling a Tesla. They ’offered’ the $40K Pro model in very limited numbers. Everyone trying to order in the 2nd wave is discovering that it’s sold out.

At least they sold a few hundred. They never promised any numbers! Tesla took years if ever to manufacture their cheapest models.

A lot of people are complaining over there (Ford Forums), but have Lucid or Rivian done any better? I don't see any Explorer models being built anytime soon. How about the Max Pack? That was supposed to be built first. Now it's somewhere between delayed and vaporware. Given where I am in Rivian's queue, I would be quite happy with a few hundred Max Pack Explorers being delivered this year!

 

[Coast2Coast]

Like Forager1 in #21, I'm rethinking my preorder. I can keep my ICE long bed Tacoma which runs great for all things truck-ish, and switch to a great all-rounder, R1S. The downside is having two large vehicles; the upside is not trying to make one vehicle do everything. And, if by switching to a later delivery, I get closer to the date when V2L/bi-directionality is available, that's great. I really want bi-directionality.

 

[cardad]

I still have 2 F150 Lightning reservations, along w/ a Cybertruck reservation and a Silverado EV reservation. They're only $100 each, so why not keep my options open?

At this point, my 2 clear favorites for taking delivery are the R1S and a Bronco Badlands. It's a race to see which one will materialize first!

My Bronco Badlands is due to arrive sometime in Feb. Anyone who’s been through Ford’s hybrid reservation/dealer process is in for a shock. Like haha, you placed a “reservation” but it means nothing because you’re buying it from a “dealer.” Oops we didn’t bother to explain that dealers can sell the vehicle for WELL above MSRP. Now you get to manually search the nation for a Ford dealer that will honor MSRP! Ford knows their system sucks but since they sell gas cars they can’t piss off the dealers too much.

I asked a dealer I have 4 orders with what their pricing would be for the Bronco Raptor and they said you had to agree to a $30k mark up to even get on the list. So Ford’s model is a joke and they don’t even optimize their profits. Maybe Rivian will concede that their pricing is also too low. Who knows? Tesla sells a 100 kwh SUV for $40k more than a 135 kwh Rivian.

 

[the long way downunder]

Ford has a valuable and irreplaceable advantage over Rivian … but it risks destroying that value and turning that strength against itself. GM, Kia and Hyundai, Mercedes are all employing these predatory short term tactics to exploit owner "loyalty" to their brand.
But at least Ford and GM are saying they will prevent dealers from gouging. *cough*
The proof of the pudding is in the eating – we won't know till loyal Ford owners appear on social media sharing their early adopter experiences. The experience with the Mach-E and Bronco do not bode well. GM has also simply failed to launch its new vehicles, most prominently its flagship Corvette as, year after year, GM struggles to figure out how a giant retirement fund can also build a few cars.

We won't know about msrp transactions till Ford ramps up Lightning production, estimated to be starting at 1000 units per week in March; a scale of initial production that Rivian should consider seriously. In other words, consider the first half of 2023 as Rivian just barely begins to offer its product range – meaning the R1 S and T with Max Pack and the "standard" (small?) pack – Ford will have had 3 quarters of production, built out its early adopter high-spec, high-priced vehicles and be offering the lower priced models if only to deliberately win so-called "conquest" orders taking customers away from competitors.

Every car maker is entering the EV sector with a "do or die" imperative … Ford and Rivian might be bedfellows, but that won't deter Ford from competing with GM and that means Rivian will be in the crossfire.

Here's a succinct report on the state of EV gouging:

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[riviancanucknb]

Like Forager1 in #21, I'm rethinking my preorder. I can keep my ICE long bed Tacoma which runs great for all things truck-ish, and switch to a great all-rounder, R1S. The downside is having two large vehicles; the upside is not trying to make one vehicle do everything. And, if by switching to a later delivery, I get closer to the date when V2L/bi-directionality is available, that's great. I really want bi-directionality.

I am curious what source you're referring to that Rivian will have V2L available at any point, let alone this year? I have yet to hear any confirmation from any source that it is coming.

To me, V2L is a deal breaker. If Rivian has it confirmed, then I will go ahead with my Rivian order. If they fail to confirm it before Ford contacts me on my Lightning order, I will buy Ford.

I am not going to buy a $100K vehicle and not be able to use it at my house in an emergency 1-2 times / year our power goes out in the winter. It is a very significant feature of a premium EV for me. The 2K watts Rivian has in the gear tunnel is not sufficient. I really, really, REALLY want to be able to get rid of my generator.

 

[Coast2Coast]

Back when the Chosen 10 had first crack at Rivians in Bloomington, RJ said in a sit down discussion that V2L was coming, but he didn't say when. It will require a different charger from the one Rivian is first offering - a couple sources have confirmed this - but other than this I know nothing more.

Like you, for me, V2L is essential as PG&E service in my area is unreliable and power is out a half dozen times a year on average. I don't have a generator and don't want to invest in one, if Rivian can deliver V2L. For this reason, I'm willing to wait until it's available as long as it's not forever.

I'm an early R1T preorder but, as mentioned before, I have a perfectly reliable Tacoma long bed for all things truckish, so I'm likely switching to a R1S with the hope that by the time they're being delivered, the V2L feature will be sorted and available.

Sponsored