Dear Rivian Engineers who worked on the Air Conditioning

[Si.LE.R1S]

Live in Vegas. Just got my R1S back a week ago from SC to address AC not cooling/loud fan. They drained and recharged refrigerant and found to be UNDER charged. No leaks. Back to fully smitten with my R1S!

Compressor and vibration is pretty strong at initial preconditioning. I precondition for 15-20 minutes if the car is in full desert sun all day, which brings the cabin from 130s (ambient ~110) down to mid 70s. I will say that even once the temp reaches target, however, the cabin can reheat from the heat radiating from the glass roof, which stays warm to the touch. This does not occur when coming from a covered parking situation, obviously.

I plan to get a reflective sun shade - definitely an oversight for Rivian to have omitted this.

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[redantpile]

FYI. The third row has active cooling. In this picture, red are the two ducts leaving the blower, orange is the blower and yellow are two coolant lines rising from below. If you want to verify it, pull the 110 volt panel starting from the right side. This stuff should be visible thru there. It's easy to pry out. You can also see some of it just by looking up thru the vent, in front of this area, without removing anything.

My third row vents get very cold when turned on.

 

[Zoidz]

FYI. The third row has active cooling. In this picture, red are the two ducts leaving the blower, orange is the blower and yellow are two coolant lines rising from below. If you want to verify it, pull the 110 volt panel starting from the right side. This stuff should be visible thru there. It's easy to pry out.

My third row vents get very cold when turned on.

Great info, and it creates another question in my mind - what type of cooling? Is it refrigerant/evaporator cooling, or is it liquid/glycol tapped off the battery cooling circuit? I'm guessing battery cooling circuit liquid glycol. That would be an easier solution and in theory could also be used for cabin heating as well, unlike an AC evaporator. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Jayhawkeye]

I created a ticket yesterday for our first tire rotation/service, and I asked for them to look (again) at the AC. The agent said “this is a known issue but we are still working on a fix.”

 

[LL75]

At first, I am ok with this issue, but as the summer is getting hotter every day here in Dallas, it becomes annoying af, especially with the latest update of the loud noise from the AC when turning on the car unless you turn it off and back on after a few seconds. I don't think Rivian can do anything to be honest since most likely it is due to poor design. I doubt that every car with this issue has the incorrect cooolant level?

 

[Dark-Fx]

At first, I am ok with this issue, but as the summer is getting hotter every day here in Dallas, it becomes annoying af, especially with the latest update of the loud noise from the AC when turning on the car unless you turn it off and back on after a few seconds. I don't think Rivian can do anything to be honest since most likely it is due to poor design. I doubt that every car with this issue has the incorrect cooolant level?

Entirely possible that the machine that fills the AC systems at the plant was just out of calibration for some weeks before it was noticed.

 

[SoCal Rob]

FYI. The third row has active cooling. In this picture, red are the two ducts leaving the blower, orange is the blower and yellow are two coolant lines rising from below. If you want to verify it, pull the 110 volt panel starting from the right side. This stuff should be visible thru there. It's easy to pry out.

My third row vents get very cold when turned on.

That will be welcome news, if true. I don’t understand why Rivian would use the blowing air (gray wavy lines) symbol and not the cooled air (blue snowflake) symbol when the rear blower is running. Maybe I’m wrong for believing what Rivian is telling is with these symbols: the vents provide blowing air which isn’t cooled.

Unless someone has taken the insulation off to verify refrigerant lines, the yellow could be the duct which leads to the vent on the other side. Has anyone ever determined how the passenger side third row vent is supplied? While up and over is a possibility, it could be that the roof would heat the air too much. Also, the horizontal vanes in the 3rd row vents on mine look like they’re curved to optimize airflow coming from the bottom.

 

[redantpile]

That will be welcome news, if true. I don’t understand why Rivian would use the blowing air (gray wavy lines) symbol and not the cooled air (blue snowflake) symbol when the rear blower is running. Maybe I’m wrong for believing what Rivian is telling is with these symbols: the vents provide blowing air which isn’t cooled.

Unless someone has taken the insulation off to verify refrigerant lines, the yellow could be the duct which leads to the vent on the other side. Has anyone ever determined how the passenger side third row vent is supplied? While up and over is a possibility, it could be that the roof would heat the air too much. Also, the horizontal vanes in the 3rd row vents on mine look like they’re curved to optimize airflow coming from the bottom.

The air flow starts at the blower. You can see the drivers side duct feed in the picture. The passenger side is at the bottom. It crosses over around the spare tub and goes back up on the other side. The yellow lines were two metal lines roughly 1/2" covered by some insulation. I did not follow those. I think they ran refrigerant lines from the front of the vehicle, but have not verified that.
I have to admit this thing is tougher to take apart than my previous vehicles.

I agree on the symbol. It does seem odd not to use the same snowflake.
I can only say that my third row vents do blow cold air when turned on. I even checked with a infrared thermometer this morning. After a minute is was about 15-20 degrees colder than the interior air, and still going down. If it feels like it's just blowing warm air (maybe after 30 seconds), then I would think that something is wrong with that system.

There are at least two threads on the subwoofer panel, and you can see the ducts on that side in those pictures. Also if you pull back some of the tub felt lining, you can see & feel the duct around the tub.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-removal-vibration-rattle-fix-and-pics.16385/

 

[SoCal Rob]

The air flow starts at the blower. You can see the drivers side duct feed in the picture. The passenger side is at the bottom. It crosses over around the spare tub and goes back up on the other side. The yellow lines were two metal lines roughly 1/2" covered by some insulation. I did not follow those. I think they ran refrigerant lines from the front of the vehicle, but have not verified that.
I have to admit this thing is tougher to take apart than my previous vehicles.

I agree on the symbol. It does seem odd not to use the same snowflake.
I can only say that my third row vents do blow cold air when turned on. I even checked with a infrared thermometer this morning. After a minute is was about 15-20 degrees colder than the interior air, and still going down. If it feels like it's just blowing warm air (maybe after 30 seconds), then I would think that something is wrong with that system.

There are at least two threads on the subwoofer panel, and you can see the ducts on that side in those pictures. Also if you pull back some of the tub felt lining, you can see & feel the duct around the tub.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-removal-vibration-rattle-fix-and-pics.16385/

Excellent! Thank you for showing the other side and the duct which is separate from the insulated lines. I hadn’t seen the subwoofer thread since our R1S doesn’t have the issue. I also missed the duct behind the lower red line entirely. All in all, I was wrong about and, especially given the good news that comes with being wrong, I’m happy to say that!

Maybe they’ll update the air flow icons at some point, but I’d much rather have the blowing air icon WITH active cooling than the blue snowflake icon WITHOUT active cooling.

Anyone who is having a/c performance issues should make a service appointment. Our R1S cools very well, even when fast charging in near-100° temperatures. Admittedly I haven’t been in the third row in those conditions, but it should be comfy in hot weather if the a/c system is performing properly.

 

[jcflint]

I live in Texas where it has been triple digits consistently. A couple months ago I noticed that the A/C was not cooling like it should be. (I have driven nothing but large SUVs - so sometimes it takes a hot minute to get cooled. (Pun intended) But knew it should be better

I took my R1S to the service center and after a week they figured out there was a leak from the condenser refrigerant pressure system.

I drive 2 hours every weekday, plus lots of time sitting in my car with the A/C running. The air is now COLD… all day!!

I would recommend taking yours in to SC.

The tech came out and recharged/rebalanced my AC system in the field today. Still blew hot most of the way home in San Antonio. I really hope that the AC can be fixed with the small compressor in the R1S.

 

[jcflint]

I've read about similar "overcharged/undercharged" resolutions from service events maybe half a dozen times previously, posted here and other forums. I don't live in a 100+ degree daily climate, but on days where it's 90+ my AC has performed just fine. IMO it's beginning to look like this over/under charge issue might be fairly widespread and possibly the source of many of the compaints posted here? If it were a fundamental design problem we would all be in the same situation. That would also explain why many people are not complaining.

FWIW, any AC/cooling/refrigeration system has a specific amount of refrigerant, measured in ounces in the US, that works optimally. Just a few ounces too much or too little refrigerant results in poor or no refrigerant evaporation, which is what "makes" your cold air.

While I agree with you about the overcharge/undercharge. They checked my R1S today and said it was 10% overcharged. They corrected that and now I think the AC blows even worse than before to be honest. I live in Texas and just like every said, it's just fine in the morning commute, but on the way home my car starts at ~130 and cannot get below 80 degree in 1 hour. I drive highway speeds 50-60mph most of the way home. I have noticed if I can find shade for a couple minutes the AC does cool a lot better when the sun is not beating down on me. The car is fully ceramic tinted which helped but did not fix my AC of course.

 

[jcflint]

Yep. This same thing happened to me today, AGAIN. To remedy, I turned off AC for 2 mins, then back on and efficiency increased to 2.14 mi/kwh. I was driving in stop and go traffic no faster than 45 mph, and certainly no launches. LOL. AC never really got cool by the time I got home 15 mins later.

Here's what's tragic. I have a new R1S (cool vehicle, right?) and I am driving my old 2014 Tesla Model S because it gets cool within a couple mins after leaving work. In the R1S, I sweat like a boxer all the way home. I was going to sell the Model S, because I want the Rivian to replace it.

Service center is so busy fixing poorly manufactured vehicles that my appointment is a month away! Grrr.

I want to trade this is now for a kia telluride. We have one and it blows cold AC in 2 mins no matter the 130 car temp. I love everything about my Rivian but I cannot live with no AC in Texas. In my opinion this is basically not AC.

 

[jcflint]

Based on these reports, I did several observation sessions the past few days when we had temperatures around 100 degrees in Delaware. I’ll start off by saying that I have not had any concerns or complaints about my AC prior to these observations. It seemed to me to be working as expected.

On Friday, the indicated OAT (Outside Air Temperature) on the Rivian screen was fluctuating between 99 and 100 degrees, full sun. I did not check a second independent thermometer, nor did I do any pre-cooling. I did have a front windshield reflector in place. The Rivian app indicated 120 degrees inside the R1S.

I unlocked via the app and let it pre-cool for one minute, and got in to remove the sunscreen. I set the fan to high with recirc off. That’s what you are supposed to do when outside temp is lower than inside.

My wife was with me. I could feel the temperature dropping. After 3 minutes I changed to recirc as the inside temperature felt lower than outside. After 5 minutes the temperature was probably around 80 - 85 degrees inside and was certainly bearable If a bit warm. After about 8 minutes it was comfortable. At 10 minutes I turned the fan to 50% And it felt like it was about 70 degrees inside. My wife knows nothing about these issues that the community is reporting. I asked her how it felt inside the car - she said it was very comfortable. At 18 minutes she turned the fan down to the second lowest speed. It was very comfortable the rest of the drive to the beach where we surf fish.

On Saturday, my wife and two daughters and a dog were with us. One daughter sat in the third row with the other daughter and the dog in the second row. They knew nothing about any Rivian community complaints regarding the AC. It was essentially the same as above, reasonably quick cool down, no issues at all. I did have the 2nd and 3rd row vents active. My daughter in the third row actually commented how comfortable it was and that it was much better than other 3 row vehicles she had been in. After a while she even asked me to REDUCE the fan speed as she was getting cold. OAT was showing 97 degrees, full sun.

I know that some of you, with all your frustrations over the AC, will think I’m full of ? or making this up — I’m not. My R1S AC works as good or better than any vehicle I have owned.

My conclusion is that I have a “compliant to spec” AC system and that the problems people are experiencing are not an engineering design flaw, but rather 1) refrigerant over or undercharged at the factory or 2) a leak resulting in undercharge or 3) AC compressor build quality variations, or 4) malfunctioning routing valves for battery cooling, any of which will result in reduced cabin cooling capacity. FWIW, my build date was April 23, I took delivery in early June.

If you are having issues, consider pushing Rivian to do a refrigerant recovery, vacuum leak test, and then recharge to proper refrigerant weight. Based on other reports by those who have had it serviced, It seems likely that could correct your issues IF DONE PROPERLY. The Rivian techs should know this, but just measuring system operating pressures is not a valid method of troubleshooting. They must evacuate, vacuum test, and recharge with the proper weight to do it right.

I think the issue is you are in a cooler climate zone and the AC system will work in that type of climate. If you live in the south the AC system is just not able to keep up. I have had it checked, tested, and rebalanced. Yet I still ride home from work every evening in an +80 degree vehicle for a 40 minute commute. I just think the system was not designed to handle 110 temp that we have in the south.

 

[jcflint]

Has anyone taken the time to measure the discharge temps at the vents front and back.

It would be interesting to compare the temps of those who have acceptable performance with those that do not.

I have a laser temp gun I have been riding around with for over a week now. The R1S can get the vent temp into the high 40s if it's in the shade or not more than 90 degrees outside. However, if it's over 100, which it usually is in Texas summers. The vents do not get cold unless you are in a garage or complete shade. Driving around in 100 degrees the best the vents could do on multiple settings and on/offs was in the 60s and that is just not cold enough to get the cabin below 80 degrees with all the glass on these things. I have been sweating like crazy on my afternoon drives home.

 

[jcflint]

Thought my AC issues were fixed after going to the SC but, it really just can’t stand up to AZ temps if your car is outside for a couple hours. It’s just a sauna for my kids in the second row. Bummer. $90k bummer. Pet mode forever and always I guess.

I feel the exact same way. Love the car otherwise. But I cannot live in 85 degree cabin and neither can my 3 kids.

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