4100+ mile review of things that need a look at!

[Iwannarivian]

So just put 4145 miles on my R1T with multiple 120 mile out-and-back trips logged. Plus a 500+ mile each way road trip. Here are my gripes:

1. I have noticed while using the nav while traveling (especially as a 1st time EVer) I like to know EXACTLY how much range is left and am constantly comparing that to the mileage left to my set nav destination. What I have noticed is, the nav/energy/miles left computation ISN’T adjusted/computed realtime within the navigation routing, which is a HUGE disappointment! EX. I have had it read 40 miles left at destination, then mid trip I might speed up for a while (consuming more energy/mile) and it will read the same range/miles left at destination as original…BUT ITS NOT CORRECT! and this is my gripe…if you change your driving style (use more or less energy) then in order to have an accurate reading of miles/SoC left at destination, you have to end current nav and start a new nav to destination…Which always reads differently than before! EX. it now reads 29 miles left at destination, whereas it was 40 previously. There is obviously a power meter (we can select it and watch it change as we drive) why doesn’t it tie in/correlate to the navigation route you have set?? Thus, changing miles/SoC left at the destination as your driving style changes.

2. On our 1000+ mile roadtrip EA was used almost exclusively and here is my report of its use and my hypothesis of why we had issues. We went up I44 from OKC to St Louis last weekend (it was over 100 the entire trip).On the way up we traveled at night having NO issues charging at the 2 stops we made. I will note that at each EA station we stopped at there were 4 chargers and most of the time 1 was offline, 1 of the 350kw was giving 36kw, while everything else worked as it should. On the way home (daytime) 100+ wx EVERY charging session was a royal pain in the ass! Every plugin would self terminate after a few minutes…having to replugin over and over to get the needed charge to go on. So here’s what I noticed: Both ways were hot, but obviously daytime was hotter thus causing more thermal issues with EVSE (I suspect). Also, compounding the issue, is the fact that NONE of the charging stations are covered (letting sun beat down on equipment…black power cords, sun baking screens, etc..). Ran into a Porsche Taycan who has road-tripped over 10,000 miles that said he has run into the same issues, and I know from this forum that may others have as well… That said, was it really a thermal/heat issue with the EVSE causing so much trouble? It seems like since these stations were put in no one is actively maintaining them. Also, is it too much to ask to make them covered like the gas stations??? That might help EVSE lifespans and help with these thermal issues charging in the heat of the day. Not to mention making it more comfortable and safe from sun and wx for those charging.

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[ajdelange]

1. I have noticed while using the nav while traveling (especially as a 1st time EVer) I like to know EXACTLY how much range is left and am constantly comparing that to the mileage left to my set nav destination. What I have noticed is, the nav/energy/miles left computation ISN’T adjusted/computed realtime within the navigation routing, which is a HUGE disappointment! EX.

You are asking the system to do something it cannot possibly do because the range remaining depends not only on how much charge is left in the battery but on what your consumption will be in the future - not what it has been in the past. One response to this is to have the displayed remaining display based on fixed "rated consumption" i.e. the consumption demonstrated in the EPA tests. Tesla does this and so the Tesla driver at least understands what the basis for the remainin range calculation is. Perhaps Rivian is doing the same thing but I don't remember seeing that stated anywhere though range on the charging screen is labeled "Range based on Conserve Mode" etc.

 

[McMoo]

You are asking the system to do something it cannot possibly do because the range remaining depends not only on how much charge is left in the battery but on what your consumption will be in the future - not what it has been in the past. One response to this is to have the displayed remaining display based on fixed "rated consumption" i.e. the consumption demonstrated in the EPA tests. Tesla does this and so the Tesla driver at least understands what the basis for the remainin range calculation is. Perhaps Rivian is doing the same thing but I don't remember seeing that stated anywhere though range on the charging screen is labeled "Range based on Conserve Mode" etc.

Is there anything like the Tesla energy graph? As I understand it Tesla uses data from its fleet to make the initial predictions and then adjusts based on real time usage. On the energy graph I can see that I’m supposed to arrive at a destination with 15% state of charge, for example, and it will adjust in real time so if I’m driving faster or there’s poor weather it will change and estimate I will arrive with 10%, it constantly adjusts.

 

[MoreTrout]

You are asking the system to do something it cannot possibly do because the range remaining depends not only on how much charge is left in the battery but on what your consumption will be in the future - not what it has been in the past. One response to this is to have the displayed remaining display based on fixed "rated consumption" i.e. the consumption demonstrated in the EPA tests. Tesla does this and so the Tesla driver at least understands what the basis for the remainin range calculation is. Perhaps Rivian is doing the same thing but I don't remember seeing that stated anywhere though range on the charging screen is labeled "Range based on Conserve Mode" etc.

I mostly agree based on the way the OP described the unrealistic expectation, but at the same time it isn't something that cannot be done to some degree. While it would be impossible to predict with random driving, if you are using the navigation with a mapped route it knows what the roads, distance, speed limits, elevation changes, etc. are between your current location at any time and your programmed destination. It should be possible to use that data to give a better range estimation based on current SOC on a known route. And not unreasonable to eventually add in weather/wind/traffic data to improve it further. My most common route when I get my truck will be a 200 mile trip each way between home and camp. About 1/2 of that is on highways at 70-75 mph and the last 1/2 on 55 mph single lane roads with 35 mph zones through town. If I tell the navigation system I am using that route in advance, the system should factor those speeds into the estimation and give me a more accurate predicted range. And over time, it should be able to learn if an owner tends to average the speed limit or is a lead foot and further refine and individualize the prediction, but that would obviously take some time owning and driving it.

 

[ajdelange]

s there anything like the Tesla energy graph?

Alas, no.

As I understand it Tesla uses data from its fleet to make predictions. On the energy graph I can see that I’m supposed to arrive at a destination with 15% state of charge, for example, and it will adjust in real time so if I’m driving faster or there’s poor weather it will change and estimate I will arrive with 10%, it constantly adjusts.

I don't really know how it works but my best guess is that when you lay in a route it predicts SoC all along it using rated consumption, terrain and speed limit data. Whether it incorporates weather info or not I don't know.

As you proceed along your route it reports actual SoC at each point producing a history curve and a predicted curve which seems to be based on a blend of rated consumption and measured consumption with weighting based on the age of the measured data i.e. what you did in the last couple of miles more heavily weighted that what you did 20 miles ago. Thus the overall slope of the prediction curve (though it's modulated by terrain an speed limit ahead and perhaps even weather) depends on driving condition and style. I have found this system, once it gets some real data i.e. the early rated predictions are always pessimistic, to be an excellent predictor of arrival SoC and an invaluable tool for adjusting speed in order to insure adequate margin at destination.

 

[ajdelange]

but at the same time it isn't something that cannot be done to some degree.

It is definitely possible to do as demonstrated by Tesla but Rivian does not appear to do what Tesla does. Interestingly enough this is the one thing that makes my wife vastly prefer the Rivian. It doesn't have all that stuff that she doesn't understand.

 

[elektrode]

The OP mentions he will get an updated prediction if he starts the route over.

Just have the app do a “re-routing” every 5-10min. Isn’t it already doing to this for ETA? Like when you hit unexpected traffic.

It would not be predicting the future, it would be calculating based on the recent past or the situation at present.

You are asking the system to do something it cannot possibly do because the range remaining depends not only on how much charge is left in the battery but on what your consumption will be in the future - not what it has been in the past.

 

[Dark-Fx]

So just put 4145 miles on my R1T with multiple 120 mile out-and-back trips logged. Plus a 500+ mile each way road trip. Here are my gripes:

1. I have noticed while using the nav while traveling (especially as a 1st time EVer) I like to know EXACTLY how much range is left and am constantly comparing that to the mileage left to my set nav destination. What I have noticed is, the nav/energy/miles left computation ISN’T adjusted/computed realtime within the navigation routing, which is a HUGE disappointment! EX. I have had it read 40 miles left at destination, then mid trip I might speed up for a while (consuming more energy/mile) and it will read the same range/miles left at destination as original…BUT ITS NOT CORRECT! and this is my gripe…if you change your driving style (use more or less energy) then in order to have an accurate reading of miles/SoC left at destination, you have to end current nav and start a new nav to destination…Which always reads differently than before! EX. it now reads 29 miles left at destination, whereas it was 40 previously. There is obviously a power meter (we can select it and watch it change as we drive) why doesn’t it tie in/correlate to the navigation route you have set?? Thus, changing miles/SoC left at the destination as your driving style changes.

2. On our 1000+ mile roadtrip EA was used almost exclusively and here is my report of its use and my hypothesis of why we had issues. We went up I44 from OKC to St Louis last weekend (it was over 100 the entire trip).On the way up we traveled at night having NO issues charging at the 2 stops we made. I will note that at each EA station we stopped at there were 4 chargers and most of the time 1 was offline, 1 of the 350kw was giving 36kw, while everything else worked as it should. On the way home (daytime) 100+ wx EVERY charging session was a royal pain in the ass! Every plugin would self terminate after a few minutes…having to replugin over and over to get the needed charge to go on. So here’s what I noticed: Both ways were hot, but obviously daytime was hotter thus causing more thermal issues with EVSE (I suspect). Also, compounding the issue, is the fact that NONE of the charging stations are covered (letting sun beat down on equipment…black power cords, sun baking screens, etc..). Ran into a Porsche Taycan who has road-tripped over 10,000 miles that said he has run into the same issues, and I know from this forum that may others have as well… That said, was it really a thermal/heat issue with the EVSE causing so much trouble? It seems like since these stations were put in no one is actively maintaining them. Also, is it too much to ask to make them covered like the gas stations??? That might help EVSE lifespans and help with these thermal issues charging in the heat of the day. Not to mention making it more comfortable and safe from sun and wx for those charging.

Mine recalculates on a route. My main display SoC never changes based on driving habits like it's supposed to though.

The charge termination issue I had yesterday. Actually had someone who works with EA diagnosing charging issues stop at that same charger after I moved from it. Chatted with him for a few minutes. He said generally the early termination problems are because the station is having issues verifying payment. It cancels the session if the payment times out. EA is very aware of the problem and are trying to take steps to fix it network wide.

 

[R1Sky Business]

Too expensive to cover charging stations....

 

[Iwannarivian]

Is there anything like the Tesla energy graph? As I understand it Tesla uses data from its fleet to make the initial predictions and then adjusts based on real time usage. On the energy graph I can see that I’m supposed to arrive at a destination with 15% state of charge, for example, and it will adjust in real time so if I’m driving faster or there’s poor weather it will change and estimate I will arrive with 10%, it constantly adjusts.
[/QUOTE
Yes, there is an energy graph…which is why I’m asking why doesn’t it update based on that info…

 

[Iwannarivian]

Too expensive to cover charging stations....

Really…well its not as expensive as its going to be…changing EVERY screen on EVERY unit because its sun-baked and un-readable now! Your really telling me a metal awning or a portico would cost too much? How about facing the chargers north then? That way they don’t get sun baked…but that still doesn’t help the thermal issues. Cheapest thing to do is make a small awning that just covers the chargers…even if it’s individually.

 

[R1Sky Business]

Really…well its not as expensive as its going to be…changing EVERY screen on EVERY unit because its sun-baked and un-readable now! Your really telling me a metal awning or a portico would cost too much? How about facing the chargers north then? That way they don’t get sun baked…but that still doesn’t help the thermal issues. Cheapest thing to do is make a small awning that just covers the chargers…even if it’s individually.

You're right....but still too expensive.

 

[Iwannarivian]

The OP mentions he will get an updated prediction if he starts the route over.

Just have the app do a “re-routing” every 5-10min. Isn’t it already doing to this for ETA? Like when you hit unexpected traffic.

It would not be predicting the future, it would be calculating based on the recent past or the situation at present.

The Rivian nav doesn’t do that. If you pause and re-start the routing, nothing changes…the only way I’ve found to get a new (updated) range estimate is to start a new nav, which isn’t hard since it store recents, but why can’t it just read realtime power consumption and do it in current trip?!

 

[Iwannarivian]

Mine recalculates on a route. My main display SoC never changes based on driving habits like it's supposed to though.

The charge termination issue I had yesterday. Actually had someone who works with EA diagnosing charging issues stop at that same charger after I moved from it. Chatted with him for a few minutes. He said generally the early termination problems are because the station is having issues verifying payment. It cancels the session if the payment times out. EA is very aware of the problem and are trying to take steps to fix it network wide.

That’s interesting…so they say its a payment issue…what did he say was the best choice of payment to avoid this issue….or is there one? I use the EA app which auto updates money in account via a cc tied to it.

on a side note…it still seems like a heat issue from what I’ve experienced that is causing the termination of charge sessions…or it was extremely coincidental!

 

[RivnSoon]

So this might be a silly question: 8f you know your route and don't need directions, do you still use the native navigation? Also, if using Google maps an say charge point for charging stops, how does that affect driving experience/OP's range discrepancy gripe? Thanks

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