A Case For Choosing Vinfast VF 9 Over R1S?

[mkg3]

I appreciate your well thought out response.

I am unclear on what Rivian has done that makes you think they stand a better chance of 1) making it as an auto company 2) making a better product 3) making a more reliable product 4) having better customer service and repair?

So far what I have seen from Rivian is horrible business decisions (pricing fiasco), delays, quality issues with product being sent to customers, unclear communication, numerous unknowns (subscription price, details on R1S, production numbers etc), more delays, excuses, and a product with absolutely amazing performance. They do seem to have repair facilities in the major cities, and most importantly for me in Denver.

Vinfast on the other hand, has pumped out more cars in Vietnam than Rivian has here in a shorter period of time, has plans for hundreds of physical locations in US (60 in CA), are pledging to use high quality components and offer a 10 year/125,000 mile warranty (Rivian is 5 years/60,000 with 8 years on drivetrain). In fairness, this is all on paper and actions speak louder than words, so we will have to wait and see. But I don’t think we can judge them any more than we can really judge Rivian’s long term quality and prospects at this point in time.

I can only assume that this perspective is mainly based on Vinfast being relatively new and a foreign manufacturer. Only difference with Rivian is that they are domestic. Rivian has even less experience than Vinfast though.

So for me it’s not just about the cheapest, even though that is niceit’s about buying what I need and getting good value and reliability after that purchase. I am not yet sure if that is the Rivian or the Vinfast product, but I don’t think anyone can answer that right now.

And to close this out, I am still more of a Rivian fan and hope they get my R1S in my driveway before the vinfast is available. That would probably be enough to seal the deal for Rivian.

To follow up your points:
1) Rivian has Amazon's 100K EDV backlog and if they go under on their own, it is all likely that Amazon will take them over, if one of the multi-global brand mfg does not first (e.g., VW group, Stallantis, ...). In other words, the brand will likely exist long after the company, if it comes to that.

2) Really don't know and never claimed that they make a better product. But it is designed for American taste and lifestyle.

3) Never said it would be more reliable in the end. It is likely, which what I'd said originally, that it would be more reliable and serviceable initially. This is especially true when you consider Vinfast is PLANNING their footprint whereas Rivian is well on their way.

4)See above and as for the customer service, the only thing I mentioned was that culturally there are differences on how and how much service is considered sufficient versus expectations.

I'm not here waving the American flag and saying Rivian is better because its made here. What I am saying is that based on the track records of other asian automakers, the history points to initial fair to poor quality before improves to one of the best quality vehicles. Just remember that Japanese cars been here since the 60s and Koreans since the 80s. In both cases, they made vehicles in their own countries for many, many years prior.

Sponsored

 

[Swilly]

I see people mentioning vehicles from Japan here, however, I view it a little differently as I don't believe we've ever had a major car company succeed in the west being based in an authoritarian state. Of course, the world is changing as companies like DJI have done really well.

It's personal choice, but I already try to avoid purchasing items from non-free countries. Yes, it's nearly impossible - particularly with clothing and electronics - but sometimes you can get half way. I can say that when I manage to find U.S. (or Canada or German) manufacturers of items they tend to be like something from a different era - high quality and last forever.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/vietnam/freedom-world/2021

I'm not value-hunting in this vehicle purchase at all, so I'm going to continue to roll with our Illinois, California and soon to be Texas friends.

I can appreciate that perspective. I had similar thoughts and if vinfast was government owned, I would probably defer. The fact they are intending to build vehicles in the US was a consideration as well in plunking down $200.

Maybe I come across as a bargain hunter devoid of moral values, but I consider myself more value conscious with an eye towards what I need. R1S is way more than I need to get a gaggle of snotty kids to the ski hill or soccer practice. So if another option presents itself that might give me everything I need for less, and I can put more money in the college funds for my spawns, I think it’s prudent to consider all options.

 

[LaunchGreen]

I can appreciate that perspective. I had similar thoughts and if vinfast was government owned, I would probably defer. The fact they are intending to build vehicles in the US was a consideration as well in plunking down $200.

Maybe I come across as a bargain hunter devoid of moral values, but I consider myself more value conscious with an eye towards what I need. R1S is way more than I need to get a gaggle of snotty kids to the ski hill or soccer practice. So if another option presents itself that might give me everything I need for less, and I can put more money in the college funds for my spawns, I think it’s prudent to consider all options.

LOL just for the "gaggle of snotty kids" and "college funds for my spawns"

 

[Swilly]

To follow up your points:
1) Rivian has Amazon's 100K EDV backlog and if they go under on their own, it is all likely that Amazon will take them over, if one of the multi-global brand mfg does not first (e.g., VW group, Stallantis, ...). In other words, the brand will likely exist long after the company, if it comes to that.

2) Really don't know and never claimed that they make a better product. But it is designed for American taste and lifestyle.

3) Never said it would be more reliable in the end. It is likely, which what I'd said originally, that it would be more reliable and serviceable initially. This is especially true when you consider Vinfast is PLANNING their footprint whereas Rivian is well on their way.

4)See above and as for the customer service, the only thing I mentioned was that culturally there are differences on how and how much service is considered sufficient versus expectations.

I'm not here waving the American flag and saying Rivian is better because its made here. What I am saying is that based on the track records of other asian automakers, the history points to initial fair to poor quality before improves to one of the best quality vehicles. Just remember that Japanese cars been here since the 60s and Koreans since the 80s. In both cases, they made vehicles in their own countries for many, many years prior.

I get your perspective and I think it’s shared by most here. I just think everyone is making a lot of assumptions about how the Rivian experience is going to be. We only have prior company actions to base those assumptions on. If we fairly do that with Rivian, I think most folks’ expectations or assumptions would be different than what I see here on the forum. Thanks for your time responding though, I appreciate hearing everyone’s thoughts.

 

[Swilly]

LOL just for the "gaggle of snotty kids" and "college funds for my spawns"

Don’t get me wrong, I like all 4 of them just fine, but they are in fact snot filled spawns that drain my bank account. Glad I could get you a laugh on a Monday. Take care.

 

[camaroz1985]

I put a reservation on the VF9 the first day it was available. I cancelled it last week. My wife liked the looks. I liked the idea of the car as a whole, and the package of benefits they were pitching for early adopters (luxury vacation to Vietnam anyone?), but there have since been several things that made me think it wasn't worth the risk.

For starters they are only delivering to CA, at least at the start. If you live anywhere else you are welcome to go there to take delivery and then it is on you to arrange shipping home or drive it. The lack of service stations in the event one is needed (and I would say as an early adopter, there is a much higher chance one would be) is another point to consider.

The reliance on a battery lease was another red flag to me. I understand the concept and for some people it might work, but it seems more like a marketing ploy to be able to list a lower MSRP to me. The way I see it, it is the equivalent of somewhere in the $15-18k range if you look at a 5 year loan/ownership period. They originally pitched the lease as equal to driving an ICE vehicle, but that isn't adding up to me. If it was bundled with XX kWh fast charging per month or something like that, then I could see that, but as proposed it is just added cost to me, much like buying an extended warranty, which is basically what this is.

Lastly the availability of only the smaller battery to start was another turn off. That mixed with journalists who have had the chance to ride or drive them have said they are still a long way off from being what would be considered acceptable for mainstream market.

In reality just the regional availability was enough to make me cancel, but I was hopeful they would get things sorted out more quickly. In fairness, I think they will, but I don't want to be on the leading edge for this particular vehicle/company. By the time they are ready for the masses, I think there will be better, or at least more, offerings in this segment.

To bridge the gap for us, we picked up an ID.4. Definitely a step down in size from our Atlas, but perfectly fine for us now. When we might need the 3rd row and extra space again (aging parents unable to drive themselves on trips), there should be other options. I will take the approach I have been taking to this point, and just put a reservation on everything that looks like it can be an option, and cancel if/when that isn't the case.

 

[Swilly]

I put a reservation on the VF9 the first day it was available. I cancelled it last week. My wife liked the looks. I liked the idea of the car as a whole, and the package of benefits they were pitching for early adopters (luxury vacation to Vietnam anyone?), but there have since been several things that made me think it wasn't worth the risk.

For starters they are only delivering to CA, at least at the start. If you live anywhere else you are welcome to go there to take delivery and then it is on you to arrange shipping home or drive it. The lack of service stations in the event one is needed (and I would say as an early adopter, there is a much higher chance one would be) is another point to consider.

The reliance on a battery lease was another red flag to me. I understand the concept and for some people it might work, but it seems more like a marketing ploy to be able to list a lower MSRP to me. The way I see it, it is the equivalent of somewhere in the $15-18k range if you look at a 5 year loan/ownership period. They originally pitched the lease as equal to driving an ICE vehicle, but that isn't adding up to me. If it was bundled with XX kWh fast charging per month or something like that, then I could see that, but as proposed it is just added cost to me, much like buying an extended warranty, which is basically what this is.

Lastly the availability of only the smaller battery to start was another turn off. That mixed with journalists who have had the chance to ride or drive them have said they are still a long way off from being what would be considered acceptable for mainstream market.

In reality just the regional availability was enough to make me cancel, but I was hopeful they would get things sorted out more quickly. In fairness, I think they will, but I don't want to be on the leading edge for this particular vehicle/company. By the time they are ready for the masses, I think there will be better, or at least more, offerings in this segment.

To bridge the gap for us, we picked up an ID.4. Definitely a step down in size from our Atlas, but perfectly fine for us now. When we might need the 3rd row and extra space again (aging parents unable to drive themselves on trips), there should be other options. I will take the approach I have been taking to this point, and just put a reservation on everything that looks like it can be an option, and cancel if/when that isn't the case.

Thanks. Good things to think about. I was initially turned off by the battery leasing idea, but I just factored that into the purchase price. It is still a very hard concept for me to fully wrap my head around…like what does the repo guy do when you don’t pay your battery bill, when the hunk of metal and motors belongs to you and the battery belongs to vinfast?

The smaller battery pack will not impact me for my use case, but should definitely be considered by any potential buyer.

I wish I could slide into another EV, but we need the 3 rows for every trip. No options outside Tesla. This why I am thinking of slumming it with vinfast in the first place.

 

[camaroz1985]

Thanks. Good things to think about. I was initially turned off by the battery leasing idea, but I just factored that into the purchase price. It is still a very hard concept for me to fully wrap my head around…like what does the repo guy do when you don’t pay your battery bill, when the hunk of metal and motors belongs to you and the battery belongs to vinfast?

The smaller battery pack will not impact me for my use case, but should definitely be considered by any potential buyer.

I wish I could slide into another EV, but we need the 3 rows for every trip. No options outside Tesla. This why I am thinking of slumming it with vinfast in the first place.

I was wondering that too. Or do they just send a software update to your car to disable it if you don't pay your lease?

I can definitely understand not being able to use a smaller SUV. My wife originally was insistent on needing it now, but I finally convinced her (wore her down?) that we didn't need it, at least not now.

 

[R1Sky Business]

Vinfast is only ideas and hope at this point... those projections to bring vehicles at certain dates, specs is likely what Rivian was doing to deliver launch Editions by 2020

 

[mkg3]

Thanks. Good things to think about. I was initially turned off by the battery leasing idea, but I just factored that into the purchase price. It is still a very hard concept for me to fully wrap my head around…like what does the repo guy do when you don’t pay your battery bill, when the hunk of metal and motors belongs to you and the battery belongs to vinfast?

The smaller battery pack will not impact me for my use case, but should definitely be considered by any potential buyer.

I wish I could slide into another EV, but we need the 3 rows for every trip. No options outside Tesla. This why I am thinking of slumming it with vinfast in the first place.

You may already have read this but just in case....

https://topelectricsuv.com/news/vinfast/vinfast-vf-e36-range-power-details/

 

[moosehead]

….slumming it with vinfast…..

Sounds like a sketchy but effective homemade laxative.

 

[Swilly]

Sounds like a sketchy but effective homemade laxative.

Vinfast - The newest and best weight loss “supplement”… Will have your bowels moving faster than your legs.

 

[av8or]

I looked at Vinfast for a minute, then that battery rental essentially just didn’t feel right. Not sure that will go well in the US.

 

[rraj2k81]

Some early reviews of the Vinfast (VF8)

All-New VinFast VF8 Electric SUV review // First drive in Vietnam - YouTube

 

[kvenom]

I still feel like its a terrible value (at least in Canada) $51K for the VF8 and $70K for the VF9 without the battery is a joke. The Interior and UI look pretty shoddy in the videos. Quoted range is WLTP as well, which is not at all accurate. Lots of red flags for me.

Sponsored