Sponsored

A Case For Choosing Vinfast VF 9 Over R1S?

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
29
Messages
5,258
Reaction score
8,859
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
I can’t imagine anyone buying a car where you have to lease the battery. Seems the only way for them to make this work would be for a monthly subscription program or a manufacturers vehicle leasing program.

Then the video goes into if the battery falls below 70% they will replace it, that is what Tesla and Rivian do with their warrenty.
Sponsored

 

Attesan997

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Threads
9
Messages
582
Reaction score
750
Location
NJ
Vehicles
R1T
I have a reservation hanging out there but the battery leasing doesn't make much sense to me and after hearing the sales pitch at the NY Auto show this year it still doesn't. In addition I'm not sure if things have changed but the limited distribution is also a concern. I'd like a few tens of thousands to roll off the line and have real owner feedback before I seriously consider.
 

Attesan997

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Threads
9
Messages
582
Reaction score
750
Location
NJ
Vehicles
R1T
I can’t imagine anyone buying a car where you have to lease the battery. Seems the only way for them to make this work would be for a monthly subscription program or a manufacturers vehicle leasing program.

Then the video goes into if the battery falls below 70% they will replace it, that is what Tesla and Rivian do with their warrenty.
I've seen and heard this claim a few times from Vinfast and it's part of the sliminess that gives me a bad vibe. I'd hope they replace a battery with that level of degradation under warranty. And if it took a decade to degrade that much and one is still paying monthly a replacement would still be expected. Congrats to future owners, Vinfast has aimed to hit the minimum expectation.
 

mkg3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Threads
41
Messages
1,344
Reaction score
1,749
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Unagi, Radio Flyer and Kette Car
Clubs
 
At the first, leasing the battery pack made no sense to me too but then I thought about it a bit.

Since the most expensive single subsystem in any EV is the battery subsystem. By leasing it, you pay for the depreciation of the batteries then it gets recycled. The pricing of the lease, as noted by the OP certainly makes sense.

In the airline industry, engine companies (GE and P&W) lease the jet engines by the hours, with the service contract to go with them to the airlines. So leasing the vehicle power source is not a new or unheard of idea.

If the battery technology improves significantly, will Vinfast vehicles be able to swap to a lighter battery subsystem with higher energy density easily? If so, thee is every reason to say the leasing makes sense, assuming that the rest of the vehicle suits your needs.

In a different threat, I'd argued that new battery technology probably would not be able to simply plug and play with all the improvements into existing R1 architecture. I still believe that but if its preplanned for it, then it become quite doable do. Has Vinfast thought that through?

What it comes down to is the understanding of our norm versus a different ownership model. Its not for everyone, but again, OP makes a strong case that it does.
 

TexasBob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Jan 15, 2022
Threads
15
Messages
400
Reaction score
740
Location
Houston
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
I cancelled my VF9 as soon as I saw the lease program. The cost of the battery for the average driver (who drives 15k miles a year) is $160 a month. It is an extra $19,200 for every ten years of ownership or $40,000 over the average life of the vehicle. Someone is paying that. Even if YOU do not drive that much, the person who buys it from you will. At the end of X years of ownership you still have to sell the thing. So if you sell it at 5 years, the next owner is looking at a vehicle with batteries not included and still has to discount the future lease payments.

I was looking at the VF9 and saw a ten year cost of $61k plus $19,200. Capital cost is more than a Rivian. And at the end of ten years the next owner still owes $19,200 just to lease the batteries. You know who would eat that? Me, the seller. Because if he can buy my ten year old Rivian for $50k he will only pay $30k for my VinFast.

Of course from a performance and capability perspective the VF9 does not hold a candle to the R1S on any dimension. But that may not matter. Long, long before I even thought about a VinFast I would get on every dealer's waiting list around for a Kia EV9 which will come in at about the same cost as the VinFast but with batteries included thank you very much.

Just my 2cents.
 

Sponsored

BigNerd

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
42
Reaction score
24
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
21 Model Y SR, 22 Leaf, 22 Chevy Silverado
But when will the EV9 come out? A possible end of 2022, start of 2023 is one of the primary reasons why I reserved a VF9.

For the R1S, you're probably looking at end of 2024 depending on where you are on the list (or if the R1T is any indicator... you may get lucky and get bumped up).

For the OP, the possibility of off-roading leans toward the R1S but I think they may be using the VF9 as a stopgap like I plan to. I'd like to see what the larger SUV EV landscape is in 2-3 years and by then hopefully I can trade/sell the VF9 and get into something better.

Is the Model Y 7-seater too small?
 

Bullitt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
212
Reaction score
195
Location
Agoura, CA
Vehicles
R1T, Model 3, SC Bronson
Occupation
Product Development
I sat in in the VF8 last week and poked around it. It’s pretty solid. I’m not a fan of the PRND buttons, but thats just me. Interesting to note, Pininfarina was involved in the design. My associate has had time in the VF9 and really likes it. I personally dont like the battery lease model, but it does reduce the initial investment quite a bit. The reality is people dont keep cars forever anymore. You’ll likely pay less in the time you have the car, but I do wonder about resale.
 

WrekEE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
45
Reaction score
75
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
R1S on order, Model Y P, Tundra TRD Pro
for your use case, then why not the Kia EV9?
 

Marchin_MTB

Well-Known Member
First Name
Marcin
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
1,074
Reaction score
1,322
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2015 i3, 2011 Honda CRV.
Occupation
Aerospace Engineer turned Space Physicist
Clubs
 
I wish I could slide into another EV, but we need the 3 rows for every trip. No options outside Tesla. This why I am thinking of slumming it with vinfast in the first place.
Is your daily case for this vehicle more or less than 30 miles driving around with snotty kids? If its about 30 miles or less, you might consider a Pacifica plug in hybrid. It has 30 miles of electric range... I hope this doesnt get me banned but Ive been in the Pacifica with snotty kids and the accommodation for that use case is nice. Also, ive spoken to people who own the PHEV version and they speak highly of it.
 
OP
OP
Swilly

Swilly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
295
Reaction score
508
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2001 Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
A Little Bit of Everything
Clubs
 
Is your daily case for this vehicle more or less than 30 miles driving around with snotty kids? If its about 30 miles or less, you might consider a Pacifica plug in hybrid. It has 30 miles of electric range... I hope this doesnt get me banned but Ive been in the Pacifica with snotty kids and the accommodation for that use case is nice. Also, ive spoken to people who own the PHEV version and they speak highly of it.
We actually shopped the hybrid pacifica and generally speaking we liked the vehicle. Lack of awd and the fact that dealers want over msrp turned me off. Lack of awd would have my wife opting for the ICE every time in winter months. For the price they want, I might as well wait for full electric.

Final straw is that it’s a Chrysler and I might as well take my chances with a start up company in terms of reliability and service quality.
 

Sponsored

Marchin_MTB

Well-Known Member
First Name
Marcin
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
1,074
Reaction score
1,322
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2015 i3, 2011 Honda CRV.
Occupation
Aerospace Engineer turned Space Physicist
Clubs
 
We actually shopped the hybrid pacifica and generally speaking we liked the vehicle. Lack of awd and the fact that dealers want over msrp turned me off. Lack of awd would have my wife opting for the ICE every time in winter months. For the price they want, I might as well wait for full electric.

Final straw is that it’s a Chrysler and I might as well take my chances with a start up company in terms of reliability and service quality.
Fair enough. Good luck in your search.
 

kvenom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
411
Reaction score
601
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Tesla Model Y
Don't forget the Volvo Embla is being revealed later this year with sales starting next year.
 
OP
OP
Swilly

Swilly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
295
Reaction score
508
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2001 Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
A Little Bit of Everything
Clubs
 
But when will the EV9 come out? A possible end of 2022, start of 2023 is one of the primary reasons why I reserved a VF9.

For the R1S, you're probably looking at end of 2024 depending on where you are on the list (or if the R1T is any indicator... you may get lucky and get bumped up).

For the OP, the possibility of off-roading leans toward the R1S but I think they may be using the VF9 as a stopgap like I plan to. I'd like to see what the larger SUV EV landscape is in 2-3 years and by then hopefully I can trade/sell the VF9 and get into something better.

Is the Model Y 7-seater too small?
I think we are on the same page here. R1S is my preferred vehicle, but looks like VF9 may be available before I get the Rivian. Would just seem to make sense not to pass up the first available option, especially with $5k off msrp and the tax credits. I would assume any 7 seater EV will have decent resale as long as options and inventory remain constrained.

End of the day, my guess would be that the wife happily drives the VF9 and won’t let me sell it when the R1S is available. At which point I sell the land cruiser and go all in on EV.

And yes, the model y is like a clown car in the 7 seater flavor (which I don’t think is even available anymore) and forget about it once you consider car seats for the mini spawns
 

BigNerd

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
42
Reaction score
24
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
21 Model Y SR, 22 Leaf, 22 Chevy Silverado
We actually shopped the hybrid pacifica and generally speaking we liked the vehicle. Lack of awd and the fact that dealers want over msrp turned me off. Lack of awd would have my wife opting for the ICE every time in winter months. For the price they want, I might as well wait for full electric.

Final straw is that it’s a Chrysler and I might as well take my chances with a start up company in terms of reliability and service quality.
Having owned the 1st year 2017(?)Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, I can attest to this. Tons of problem with the battery (the `12v one, not the motor ones)... lots of recalls and actually had to manufacturer trade it for a 2018 model. I had so many loaners from the dealership that I got to drive almost the full suite of Dodge/Chrysler vehicles (Durango, older T&C, Jeep, Ram truck, etc). I came close to getting a 3rd one with the slight redesign in the most recent model (if you order it's only MSRP) but read they still have issues.

But other than that, the Pacifica was great because it had tech that you had to go up to the highest trims on other vans to get and it was my intro to PHEV/EV driving. In the 4 years I had them, only gassed up about 8 times because used it for mostly local driving. I remember keeping the gas receipts to track.

What other 3-row (or even larger SUV format) EV will be out in the next 12 months? That's why people are looking at the VF9.
 

kvenom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
411
Reaction score
601
Location
Canada
Vehicles
Tesla Model Y
As expected its absolute garbage:

They baited and switched the first 999 customer VF8s shipped to North America. Those cars are this new made-up "city edition" trim, which didn't exist until they sent out an email to customers at the end of November saying the price was $55K and the range was 180 miles. HAHAHA

"Interior quality is that of a lower-end American subcompact"

https://www.motortrend.com/news/202...Cir0hgjWVVpi5JCrCg59nqVWQHnsZe5XfhTgMLGQwm0Fo
Sponsored

 
 




Top