Dual or Quad Motor?

[Rhidan]

A dual motor will also need a differential. Probably a whole host of other tech changes, and likely a completely different roll control system.

I would be surprised if Rivian has any of that tech worked out yet. Seems like they were just trying to save face by proposing an option that might be available two years from now or not.

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[Tomgriff]

Setting aside the distastefulness of how this price hike was rolled out, dual will be fine for everything until you need a locking differential. If you have never needed a locking diff, then you probably don't need a quad motor. I'm guessing that dual motor will likely function like a traditional AWD system. In terms of real world speed, you will find that you really can't use all of its quickness very often because there are cars in front of you or you've run out of road.

 

[VermontR1T]

To complicate matters further, the dual-motor version is an in-house developed motor which in theory should be more advanced than the current out-sourced version. IF the dual-motor was an option without pushing the delivery date to 2024 I think it would be a no-brainer for most.

 

[Friscorays]

Anyone know anything about potential range increase from dual motor setup v quad motor?

Yes. For an R1S with large battery pack, dual motor will get you at least an extra 4 miles of estimated range.

 

[NY_Rob]

... and keep in mind "2024" deliveries can start in Dec 2024 which is almost 3 full years from now.

Seeing how disingenuous and outright deceitful Rivian has been so far, I wouldn't put past them to "deliver" the first X,XXX Dual Motor trucks to employees again (and in Dec 2024).

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

There's a lot of unknown involving the dual motor set up, but I do think they will be able to replicate 90% or more of the capability of the quad motors with it. The idea is that the motors required for the dual motor set up will be designed in house (instead of using a basically off the shelf Bosch product) which means it can be tuned to their specific needs. Dual motor will likely be lighter than the quad, potentially significantly lighter, improving efficiency. I am assuming that they will have an electronic differential that replicates most of the benefits of the quad motors and it will retain torque vectoring capability paired with the adaptive suspension.

Tank Turn and the potential K-Turn will be lost, and the power/weight ratio may be slightly lower (resulting in the slight loss in performance).

I'm fine with dual motors because Rivian has demonstrated that their driving dynamics combined with their proprietary suspension combines for an incredible driving experience. I expect this to be the same with 2 less motors.

 

[Forager]

I was hoping for a dual motor variant to drive cost down, not keep it the same. But that’s another issue entirely.

The dual motor setup should be 600hp/600lb*ft based on reporting I’ve read. Any range efficiency is going to be related to the efficiency of a new motor design, not the use of fewer motors. Weight savings may come into play, but again that’s minor since most of it is non-rotational mass. The reduced rotational mass of two motors is offset by the increased mass of two differentials.

Technologically, Rivian has to design new motors, differentials, and traction control systems to make this work. Thats in addition to smaller changes to BMS, cooling, and chassis to make it work. That’s really the driver in a 2+ year delay.

And of course, what confidence do any of us have that when they get to Q1 of 2024 the price will still be what they say today? It’s still subject to change.

 

[Friscorays]

... and keep in mind "2024" deliveries can start in Dec 2024 which is almost 3 full years from now.....

December 2024, shortly after Christmas, might be a good time for the it is coming soon (we promise) email.

 

[zefram47]

I'd consider the dual-motor if it wouldn't push things into 2024. But it also needs locking differentials to be workable off-road, especially as heavy as the R1 is.

 

[NY_Rob]

And of course, what confidence do any of us have that when they get to Q1 of 2024 the price will still be what they say today?

If anything, Rivian less then 24hrs ago just 100% proved that their website prices mean nothing in the long term. Anyone expecting the current "forecast" pricing to hold for what could be almost 3yrs is just beyond foolish.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I'd consider the dual-motor if it wouldn't push things into 2024. But it also needs locking differentials to be workable off-road, especially as heavy as the R1 is.

As of today it pushes it to 2024, but that may not be concrete. If that's based on the availability of the new motors not being viable until 2024 then it probably sticks. If it's based on the idea that they had to assume that the existing preorders would remain stable and grow when forecasting availability it may move up due to now diminished demand for the other products.

As a side note, I would bet all of my RIVN stock that it was a conscious decision to roll this out before rolling out the Delivery Estimate tool in the configurator, because they wanted to see how many cancellations/changes happened as a result to tweak their projections accordingly.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I am concerned that the two-motor version will not have sufficient torque to efficiently tow my 7,000# airstream travel trailer. My current Diesel pick-up has right at 1,000 ft/lbs of torque.

Brian

How often do you have the pedal on the floor? Power output at high levels is way harder on the batteries of an EV than the motor. If the quad motor can pull it, the dual motor will be able to as well.

 

[Jason C]

Quad motor, dual motor. Probably won’t be a noticeable difference driving on road. But…. What’s stopping Rivian from raising there prices in 2 years. If you wait, will your dual motor cost as much as a quad motor now.

 

[kylealden]

I am concerned that the two-motor version will not have sufficient torque to efficiently tow my 7,000# airstream travel trailer. My current Diesel pick-up has right at 1,000 ft/lbs of torque.

Brian

This almost certainly won't be an issue. The torque numbers for dual motor are still generous and the availability over the entire powerband is a superior experience.

My read is that the only real disadvantages to dual motor are:

1. Who knows when it actually ships or whether prices will go up by then. If you can afford and have a chance to secure quad motor now, it will probably age better than hoping prices stay steady for another you or two.
2. Slightly slower and less powerful, but not in any way practically limiting
3. Probably less sophisticated/responsive torque vectoring for various driving modes; I imagine they'll have to use traditional techniques with differential wheel braking, which is certainly not bad (it's what e.g. Tesla does), but not state of the art in the same way the quad motors are.

 

[R1T7777]

For the average person that will use the R1T as a daily driver and for the weekend adventure, which is the right choice-dual or quad motor? Is it worth the extra $6,000 to have that extra power and off-road capability?

I loved that the quad motor was standard, but now I'm not sure if I really need it. Granted, $6,000 seems like a pretty good deal to get two more motors. Also to note is that the Hummer EV has a 2 or 3 motor option and the 3 motor package is a $10k increase and the Lightning only offers a 2 motor option.

Neither. At this point Rivian has lost my confidence in them as a trustworthy company, and they've lost their price competitiveness. With the continued delays they are losing their first mover advantage. Cancelled my order and am wondering about what to do with my stock...

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