electrek: Electricity is about to become the new base currency and China figured it out [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[VSG]

Much of electricity production requires wasting water to turn turbines

That's an odd way to think of it - the water turning the turbines stays in the river as nature intended; it's not wasted. I would argue that keeping it all in a reservoir then using it to water lawns is the waste.

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[BigSkies]

That's an odd way to think of it - the water turning the turbines stays in the river as nature intended; it's not wasted. I would argue that keeping it all in a reservoir then using it to water lawns is the waste.

You're thinking about hydroelectric.

The original comment refers to steam turbines. Power generation involves heating large amounts of water and turning it into steam whether the heat source is coal, gas, or nuclear.

One of the benefits in Colorado in shutting coal plants is those water rights are now being sold by the utilities to other users.

The amount of water used in steam turbines is large when viewed in isolation, but fairly small when compared to entire cities or ag users.

 

[Rade]

China really has made strides to surpass the rest of the world in renewable energy. Aside from solar and wind, the government heavily subsidized the EV manufacturers there to produce inexpensive cars that are overtaking all other power trains.

It's amazing how much energy both crypto and AI take to produce, yet where the server farms are being set up, there is not much in the way of green infrastructure.

...or against stray cats.

 

[VandalSibs]

You're thinking about hydroelectric.

The original comment refers to steam turbines. Power generation involves heating large amounts of water and turning it into steam whether the heat source is coal, gas, or nuclear.

One of the benefits in Colorado in shutting coal plants is those water rights are now being sold by the utilities to other users.

The amount of water used in steam turbines is large when viewed in isolation, but fairly small when compared to entire cities or ag users.

It sure doesn't seem like the original comment was talking about steam turbines...

 

[Bob70533457973917]

Much of electricity production requires wasting water to turn turbines. Solar panels and wind turbines do not, so shifting electricity production to those will leave more water for other uses.

In which modes of hydroelectric generation is water wasted? There are turbines in rivers & oceans harnessing the water's gravity- or tide-fed kinetic energy. These are not wasting water. I'm struggling to think of hydro applications that actually waste water.

 

[BigSkies]

I wish my return on investment would be that quick for solar in my state. With the low rates I get from my utility ($.09/kWh), the ROI is more like 20 years, if not longer....

Make sure you're doing an inflation adjusted payback. You have to factor in what the price of electricity will be in the future as well as what the price is today.

Your payback will be meaningfully closer adding in an electricity inflation factor of ~3%.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few years of 10% electricity inflation with all of the AI nonsense going on.

 

[VandalSibs]

Make sure you're doing an inflation adjusted payback. You have to factor in what the price of electricity will be in the future as well as what the price is today.

Your payback will be meaningfully closer adding in an electricity inflation factor of ~3%.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few years of 10% electricity inflation with all of the AI nonsense going on.

I'd have to dig into records for my area's rates over the years to see how often, and how much, they have raised them. I think it's been between 8 cents and 10 cents /kWh for a very long time thanks to hydropower in my area.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

You're thinking about hydroelectric.

The original comment refers to steam turbines. Power generation involves heating large amounts of water and turning it into steam whether the heat source is coal, gas, or nuclear.

One of the benefits in Colorado in shutting coal plants is those water rights are now being sold by the utilities to other users.

The amount of water used in steam turbines is large when viewed in isolation, but fairly small when compared to entire cities or ag users.

Even with steam turbines that water doesn’t disappear. It’s released into the atmosphere and resumes it’s role in the water cycle in the form of precipitation.

 

[BigSkies]

Even with steam turbines that water doesn’t disappear. It’s released into the atmosphere and resumes it’s role in the water cycle in the form of precipitation.

Yes, but it does disappear out of the local watershed.

This isn't a big deal in parts of the country that have plenty of water.

It's a consideration in the west where rivers are drying quickly, and the Colorado river compact seems ready to implode in the next few years.

The best info I can find is that the coal fired plants in the western US turn about 76 Billion gallons a year into steam. Although a number of those plants have closed since the article was written. That's about the same as the city of Las Vegas consumes yearly if I'm doing my arithmetic right.

 

[zymolysis]

" Much of electricity production requires wasting water to turn turbines. Solar panels and wind turbines do not, so shifting electricity production to those will leave more water for other uses."

That water isn’t wasted. Where do you think it goes?

Into the air. Most utility scale plants (coal, natural gas, nuclear, concentrated solar) have wasted water by turning it into steam to turn turbines. As electricity production shifts to PV and wind turbines (and other forms), whether utility-scale or point of use, it will leave water for other uses.

 

[zymolysis]

Even with steam turbines that water doesn’t disappear. It’s released into the atmosphere and resumes it’s role in the water cycle in the form of precipitation.

Spoken like someone who lives where there is an unlimited amount of precipitation or surface water. I live in Arizona. There is a limited amount of water - evaporating it is wasting it - it won't result in additional rainfall here. Sure, it still exists *somewhere*, but not here.
That's like the bird in the hand (water that is present and available) versus the bird in the bush - water in the atmosphere or in the ocean.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Spoken like someone who lives where there is an unlimited amount of precipitation or surface water. I live in Arizona. There is a limited amount of water - evaporating it is wasting it - it won't result in additional rainfall here. Sure, it still exists *somewhere*, but not here.
That's like the bird in the hand (water that is present and available) versus the bird in the bush - water in the atmosphere or in the ocean.

True. But who chose to settle where there is no abundance of water? No celestial being reached down from heavens and transplanted individual humans from the shores of oceans, lakes and rivers.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Spoken like someone who lives where there is an unlimited amount of precipitation or surface water. I live in Arizona. There is a limited amount of water - evaporating it is wasting it - it won't result in additional rainfall here. Sure, it still exists *somewhere*, but not here.
That's like the bird in the hand (water that is present and available) versus the bird in the bush - water in the atmosphere or in the ocean.

That’s what happens when you build metropolitan areas in deserts.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

" Much of electricity production requires wasting water to turn turbines. Solar panels and wind turbines do not, so shifting electricity production to those will leave more water for other uses."



Into the air. Most utility scale plants (coal, natural gas, nuclear, concentrated solar) have wasted water by turning it into steam to turn turbines. As electricity production shifts to PV and wind turbines (and other forms), whether utility-scale or point of use, it will leave water for other uses.

Again, that water is not wasted, it falls as precipitation.

 

[zymolysis]

That’s what happens when you build metropolitan areas in deserts.

Or when you farm in the desert - farming uses more water per acre than cities. But wasting water by turning it into steam makes even less sense than either of those - especially when there are alternatives that make electricity without turning water into steam.

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