R1S 20 inch replacement: Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 vs vs Goodyear Wrangler Territory At

[ben_jammin]

Currently have the stock Pirellis scorpion ATs on our 20 inch wheels and the tread is looking a bit low. Looking into options for replacement and trying to pick between the Goodyear Wrangler Territory ATs (which are now the 20 all season option although they are ATs?) or the Michelin Defender ltx m/s2 which everyone raves about. Have also considered the continental terrain contact a/ts too but the Michelin or Goodyear options might be better?

The biggest consideration is ability to still go light to mild off roading around Southern California (and i to Vegas/Utah/Arizona/Colorado) while still retaining decent mileage and noise for the 90% highway driving.

Figure that the Goodyears might be a bit better for off road but has anyone done any off roading in the Michelins? Have seen videos of some people driving through ruts with road wheels and fine due to the quad motor being so capable so maybe it doesn’t make too big of a difference? Snow driving is maybe once a year at best but most likely next to none. Definitely want to adventure in some sand/rock/wilderness type terrain/trails though.

Any advice between the two would be appreciated!

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[mikehmb]

For light off-roading, the biggest concern with the Michelins would be punctures. For that reason alone, if you'd doing anything that isn't smooth gravel or fire roads without sharp rocks, get something for the trail (all-terrain).

But if you're not dealing with anything sharp, I'm sure you'd be fine - the Rivian is a beast off road and can probably take most trails on slicks better than many other vehicles with ATs.

 

[ben_jammin]

For light off-roading, the biggest concern with the Michelins would be punctures. For that reason alone, if you'd doing anything that isn't smooth gravel or fire roads without sharp rocks, get something for the trail (all-terrain).

But if you're not dealing with anything sharp, I'm sure you'd be fine - the Rivian is a beast off road and can probably take most trails on slicks better than many other vehicles with ATs.

awesome that makes sense. Yes I’m wanting to get into some rocks. Probably not crazy boulders but at least some rock for sure. Another one I forgot to add to the consideration list is Falken Wildpeak AT3W… wondering for rocks would the Goodyear still be ok given that it’s an AT even though Rivian considers it all season?

 

[ElGuapo]

I actually just tried to have the Michelin’s put on and installer said they tried, but can never get them to fit on a Rivian, even though they’re supposed to be able to. Not sure why, but apparently it was a known issue at Tire Rack. I really was done with the ATs, but had to get new ones for the time being…

 

[iansriv]

OP-Goodyear all day. There is a thread with extensive information. I'd link if I could find it.

 

[ben_jammin]

OP-Goodyear all day. There is a thread with extensive information. I'd link if I could find it.

Yes please send if you can find it… been trying to research as much as possible.

 

[iansriv]

Yes please send if you can find it… been trying to research as much as possible.

Here you go:

Goodyear

 

[jeeden]

Kind of weird about the installer saying that with Michelins. Maybe a bad batch? Maybe the installer doesn't know what he is doing?

Michelin here about 6 months in and love them. I think the answer is above about how harsh of offroading your doing. If you are doing ski trips in snow, logging roads, etc I think the Michelin's are great and are smoooooooth and quiet the rest of the time. If you are going on sharp rock, you probably need the ATs.

 

[Jonjon09]

I actually just tried to have the Michelin’s put on and installer said they tried, but can never get them to fit on a Rivian, even though they’re supposed to be able to. Not sure why, but apparently it was a known issue at Tire Rack. I really was done with the ATs, but had to get new ones for the time being…

That's weird. I just got Michelins put on mine this weekend. Granted they are the LTX Platinum and not the M/S2 but he had no issues and they are so much quieter than that Pirellis were! And I think they should be able to handle off-roading a tad bit better than the M/S2 as well based on the tread pattern. And a bit more life out of those than the M/S2 (70k vs 50k).

Too early to tell for sure but I do have an off-road trip next weekend to put them to the test with some highway driving between now and then as well.

 

[ElGuapo]

That's weird. I just got Michelins put on mine this weekend. Granted they are the LTX Platinum and not the M/S2 but he had no issues and they are so much quieter than that Pirellis were! And I think they should be able to handle off-roading a tad bit better than the M/S2 as well based on the tread pattern. And a bit more life out of those than the M/S2 (70k vs 50k).

Too early to tell for sure but I do have an off-road trip next weekend to put them to the test with some highway driving between now and then as well.

Yeah. I am kind of pissed because I hate the Pirellis - they’re super loud and probably give the roughest ride on an already not so great suspension. Feels like installer could’ve been lazy, but Tire Rack acknowledged the issue is widespread”. And I don’t need hard core off road tires. I just liked the rims better back when I bought it.

But, car was in for tires and I couldn’t really wait multiple days and Pirellis were in stock at tire rack. I know installer does lots of Rivians, but who knows. I figured I’d get new ones next time around…

 

[B Digs]

Here you go:

Goodyear

Hi all, I am an engineer at Goodyear and had the opportunity to work directly with Rivian to develop the Wrangler Territory AT, specifically for the R1 platform. As @iansriv mentioned, the Goodyear thread has received a lot of positive feedback across a wide range of terrains and conditions.

 

[Mathme]

I was in the same situation and went with the Goodyears about 6 weeks ago. Although the Pirelli's had more tread on them, they were so loud I couldn't stand it any more. I ended up going with the GYs over the Michelin's because these tires were tuned for the Rivian and mileage estimates and so forth will be spot on when traveling, the sidewalls aren't a bland piece of rubber and there's a lot of rubber in these tires, the contact patch is slightly wider and thus you have more rubber hitting the road, and they are 3PMS for those few times of the year I do go to Tahoe.

These tires are definitely more efficient than the Pirelli's. The only long trip I've been on with these tires was with two bikes on the rack behind the truck and these tires came back being about 10% more efficient than the Pirelli's were on the same trip. I'm off on a longer road trip this weekend so I'll be curious to see how they do without the bikes back there.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

awesome that makes sense. Yes I’m wanting to get into some rocks. Probably not crazy boulders but at least some rock for sure. Another one I forgot to add to the consideration list is Falken Wildpeak AT3W… wondering for rocks would the Goodyear still be ok given that it’s an AT even though Rivian considers it all season?

You are shopping 3 tires in 3 different categories. A bit odd. Determine what your primary use criteria is and the question would be answered.

The Falken is a true AT. And I believe the AT3W has been discontinued in favor of AT4W. These Falkens, if LT E-load, are significantly heavier than the factory Pirelli AT (66 vs 48 lbs static). Tough but sacrifices efficiency and on-pavement driving dynamics for durability. Forum members on AT3W have expressed difficulties in finding replacements. The smaller (275/60R20) XL Goodyear is a AT/AS hybrid (42 lbs static), expect it to slot between the Falken and the Michelin MS2 AS in off-pavement traction. The Goodyear, being 1.2” smaller is probably similar in efficiency as the Michelin. https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/tire-advice-for-2023-rivian-r1s-–-stuck-between-xtm-ko3-and-toyo-a-t-iii.48156/post-835597

Using Jeep Jamboree's trail rating as a reference... Rating 1~2, you do not need AT tires at all. Rating 3~5, if you do not have AT tires, you will discover traction limits more and more. Rating 6 and above, AT is a bare minimum must-have.

There isn't a super tire that does everything exceptionally well. Whatever it excels at, be it efficiency or off-road performance, it sacrifices other attributes to achieve it. Case in point... experiences shared below of the Goodyear Territory AT RIV. It gives up some efficiency to have a more off-pavement (plus inclement weather capability) capability and rugged looks than the typical smoother rolling and plain looking all-season. But it is not as tough as a true AT with more material and durability. It attempts to strike a balance between AT and AS.

 

[bhendron]

I was an early adopter of the Goodyears, and they are great looking and ride great, but I’m sadly disappointed in the tread wear. I just rotated at 5k miles and I’m thinking I’ll be lucky to get 15k out of them. The tread is already low enough that they’re looking quite old and worn.

I don’t launch the truck at every light, and I don’t drive in conserve mode.

I’ll probably looking at the Michelin’s for my next set.

 

[NorthVan57]

I have 5K on the Goodyears, wouldn’t buy again, only two ply, got nasty cut and had to be patched by local in middle of nowhere! Three hours from a town, and the emergency tire on R1S was super sketchy rolling over the chucks rocks on gravel road to find a general store in Holberg, BC where he patched the tire from inside, would not recommend this tire to anyone who goes off roading, will be replacing to get some off road reliability, quiet but dangerous to have a useless tire in middle of nowhere, tried plugs and sealant but too big a cut! Drove the hell out of original pirellis and never had any issues except road noise.

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