Farewell - sold my R1T QM and moved to Tesla MY26 - some thoughts and comparison

[HaveBlue]

Enjoy your new car. The Y is a great car but please be careful with the camera only fsd vision.

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[bigsky]

Will leave politics out of watch out for self drive. In our case we got rid of our teslas after several instances of the cars attempting to kill us. Have paid for self drive on 10 of our cars and frankly ashamed to have done that. Many years worth of promised that it would be ready in a year all lies or incompetence, I will leave up to you to decide. As of 4 months ago the car would take exit ramps at 70 mph despite clearly posted limits of 35. Of course we would slam on brakes to avoid going through toll booths at 70 mph but Tesla never fixed it. Once driving on the Dulles access road in the right lane it attempted to swerve onto a shoulder at 70 mph into a concrete barrier we barely avoided that maneuver. Why 70 again because we had our signal on to exit and it sped up to 70 as per its normal. Another time it tried to put us on the wrong highway quarter of a mile from our correct one. Anyway extreme caution if using “self drive)

FSD was promised to be level 5 years ago. It is not.
Today, FSD status among the masses can be broken down into two camps. One camp appreciates FSD for what it is, for the great things it DOES do; the other camp is the political camp claiming that because FSD is still not level 5, it is therefore worthless, no good. Yep, the later is 100% unadulterated bona fide politics.

 

[bigsky]

R1T and MY are not an apples-to-apples comparison. Different vehicles for different purposes. Glad to hear you are satisfied with your MY.
My comments on here about Tesla and especially when compared to Rivian clearly had hit a raw nerve among a few. Rivian fanboys are perhaps among them.

If your first EV is a Rivian, what Rivian does is your yardstick. For those of us who have owned Teslas, Tesla is the yardstick and it clearly still is the yardstick against which many EVs shall be compared, measured up, and fail.

Like my R1S a lot. I will drive it until it can go no more. But as far as software integration and what it allows vehicles to do, the GUI, the user implementation, the common-sense approach, the ease of use, on and on, Tesla is in such a league of its own that it makes Rivian software look like the proverbial amateur that it truly is. Will leave out examples.

 

[Zorg]

FSD was promised to be level 5 years ago. It is not.
Today, FSD status among the masses can be broken down into two camps. One camp appreciates FSD for what it is, for the great things it DOES do; the other camp is the political camp claiming that because FSD is still not level 5, it is therefore worthless, no good. Yep, the later is 100% unadulterated bona fide politics.

The third camp thinks it's great but not worth $8k. Also, third camp doesn't care much about a level 2 ADAS city system.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Will leave politics out of watch out for self drive. In our case we got rid of our teslas after several instances of the cars attempting to kill us. Have paid for self drive on 10 of our cars and frankly ashamed to have done that. Many years worth of promised that it would be ready in a year all lies or incompetence, I will leave up to you to decide. As of 4 months ago the car would take exit ramps at 70 mph despite clearly posted limits of 35. Of course we would slam on brakes to avoid going through toll booths at 70 mph but Tesla never fixed it. Once driving on the Dulles access road in the right lane it attempted to swerve onto a shoulder at 70 mph into a concrete barrier we barely avoided that maneuver. Why 70 again because we had our signal on to exit and it sped up to 70 as per its normal. Another time it tried to put us on the wrong highway quarter of a mile from our correct one. Anyway extreme caution if using “self drive)

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. FSD is unsafe, their camera only system does not and cannot safely perform to the level necessary to operate in an end to end destination capacity.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

R1T and MY are not an apples-to-apples comparison. Different vehicles for different purposes. Glad to hear you are satisfied with your MY.
My comments on here about Tesla and especially when compared to Rivian clearly had hit a raw nerve among a few. Rivian fanboys are perhaps among them.

If your first EV is a Rivian, what Rivian does is your yardstick. For those of us who have owned Teslas, Tesla is the yardstick and it clearly still is the yardstick against which many EVs shall be compared, measured up, and fail.

Like my R1S a lot. I will drive it until it can go no more. But as far as software integration and what it allows vehicles to do, the GUI, the user implementation, the common-sense approach, the ease of use, on and on, Tesla is in such a league of its own that it makes Rivian software look like the proverbial amateur that it truly is. Will leave out examples.

This is simply a matter of familiarity. As you said, it depends on where you started. I test drove a few Teslas when I was looking at switching from my R1T, and I found their system difficult to navigate. I intensely dislike having a button turn signal or having to swipe a screen to drive. There is no overhead camera view, which is probably the view I find most valuable in parking lots and when pulling into parking garages to avoid curbing my wheels. That for me is a deal breaker. The rest of the software looked like a bunch of useless crap bloatware that I had no interest in. ooooooo it has video games, who cares. Fart noises, WOW amirite? Not to mention, both the interior and exterior look like an Ikea showroom, built as cheaply as possible.

For every bit you feel the Rivian software is inferior I feel the Tesla's is.

 

[bigsky]

This is simply a matter of familiarity. As you said, it depends on where you started. I test drove a few Teslas when I was looking at switching from my R1T, and I found their system difficult to navigate. I intensely dislike having a button turn signal or having to swipe a screen to drive. There is no overhead camera view, which is probably the view I find most valuable in parking lots and when pulling into parking garages to avoid curbing my wheels. That for me is a deal breaker. The rest of the software looked like a bunch of useless crap bloatware that I had no interest in. ooooooo it has video games, who cares. Fart noises, WOW amirite? Not to mention, both the interior and exterior look like an Ikea showroom, built as cheaply as possible.

For every bit you feel the Rivian software is inferior I feel the Tesla's is.

Oh, the Netflix, the fart bs, things I never have used, and never will.
I myself found the best protection for not curbing wheels on my glorious Teslas: rimsavers.
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They are the sacrificial lambs.
PIN to drive, navigation, PAAK implementation, FSD...Rivian, amateur you, are you listening?
My Teslas do not have the buttons on display for shifting or buttons for turn signals. Or the yoke for a steering wheel. Change is good, but change for the sake of change, I don't know. Rivian seems to excel at the latter, and do it half-assed at best.
Spartan interior for sure. IKEA? seems a bit of a stretch.
And [expletive] [expletive] EV blasphemy, ICE-age key fob need not apply. Phone integration is second to none.
But, apparently, OP migrated to a Tesla in spite of it all. That says a lot, does it not?
What gives?
I will add this, had Tesla made a true SUV like my R1S Gen 1 beast, I sure as hell would not be driving a Rivian today, and that Tesla would be parked in my garage today instead.
But absolutely true. Familiarity, indeed. Reason why I said that were Rivian your fist EV, you might think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that there is nothing better.

 

[PaythePiper]

Yeah it's totally annoying all the people who really like their Rivians on a Rivian forum.

Totally cool with everyone loving their Rivians. But there’s not enough objectivity on here.

 

[bigsky]

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. FSD is unsafe, their camera only system does not and cannot safely perform to the level necessary to operate in an end to end destination capacity.

It has done it for me safely countless times. I certainly doubt that my glorious Teslas are outliers in that regard.
FSD is not level 5. Absolutely not. I myself know that it is not perfect, and I sure as hell also think that nothing ADAS today is or ever will be. "Keep your hands on the wheel. Be ready to take over at any time" always appears at the start of FSD for a reason. 'Nuff said.
But what FSD DOES DO is second to none however close to or far from 100% self-driving it is.
All of which brings me to what I too have said gazillion times: the two camps, one saying that because FSD is not level 5 it is a worthless feature. The other camp, those like me who appreciate it, understand the capabilities, and use it safely.
But downright to suggest that because FSD is not level 5; therefore, it is worthless, no good, as many think, I find that to be total, 100%, bona fide, unadulterated poppycock, idiotic, worthy-of-a-moron bullshit.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

It has done it for me safely countless times. I certainly doubt that my glorious Teslas are outliers in that regard.
FSD is not level 5. Absolutely not. I myself know that it is not perfect, and I sure as hell also think that nothing ADAS today is or ever will be. "Keep your hands on the wheel. Be ready to take over at any time" always appears at the start of FSD for a reason. 'Nuff said.
But what FSD DOES DO is second to none however close to or far from 100% self-driving it is.
All of which brings me to what I too have said gazillion times: the two camps, one saying that because FSD is not level 5 it is a worthless feature. The other camp, those like me who appreciate it, understand the capabilities, and use it safely.
But downright to suggest that because FSD is not level 5; therefore, it is worthless, no good, as many think, I find that to be total, 100%, bona fide, unadulterated poppycock, idiotic, worthy-of-a-moron bullshit.

I don't think you're understanding what our, or at least my, actual objection to FSD is. The fact of the matter is that when using an ADAS system, you pay less attention. After all, that's the point of the system, to share the load. I think we have it down on expressways and freeways because those areas are designed for a high rate of speed, have limited access and egress points and the traffic is all moving the same direction.

When you're talking about driving on city streets I don't think ANY system is safe enough for people to pay less attention, which as we just covered above, is inevitable. I don't like FSD because I don't think running over little kids or blowing through stop signs or other ramming barriers or taking exit ramps at 70MPH are acceptable allowances for computers on public roadways.

 

[bigsky]

As I mentioned in another thread, I was given a 2023 RIT dual max pack as a loaner while my R1S was in service.
I had always said that it would be a snowy day in hell should I ever own a pickup truck.
Then I had to drive that R1T loaner. Get rid of the stupid, noisy, moronic, idiotic AT tires that it had, and my god, strongly considering adding an R1T to my personal EV fleet. Damn you, Rivian!!!!

 

[bigsky]

I don't think you're understanding what our, or at least my, actual objection to FSD is. The fact of the matter is that when using an ADAS system, you pay less attention. After all, that's the point of the system, to share the load. I think we have it down on expressways and freeways because those areas are designed for a high rate of speed, have limited access and egress points and the traffic is all moving the same direction.

When you're talking about driving on city streets I don't think ANY system is safe enough for people to pay less attention, which as we just covered above, is inevitable. I don't like FSD because I don't think running over little kids or blowing through stop signs or other ramming barriers or taking exit ramps at 70MPH are acceptable allowances for computers on public roadways.

Yes. You make valid points. I myself have my reservations about FSD, indeed. I rarely ever use it on city streets, but on the highway, and when you have to drive for hours on end, FSD is amazing. But again, I am always not totally disconnected. Even though I might try to figure out what to do with my hands, I know FSD limitations enough to be on the lookout and have a minimum sense of awareness as to take over as needed.
Again. FSD is not the panacea for self-driving. As far as I am concerned, it may never be. I simply do not subscribe to the proposition that just because of the FSD limitations that it is therefore not good at all.

 

[pamalabama]

I don't think you're understanding what our, or at least my, actual objection to FSD is. The fact of the matter is that when using an ADAS system, you pay less attention. After all, that's the point of the system, to share the load. I think we have it down on expressways and freeways because those areas are designed for a high rate of speed, have limited access and egress points and the traffic is all moving the same direction.

When you're talking about driving on city streets I don't think ANY system is safe enough for people to pay less attention, which as we just covered above, is inevitable. I don't like FSD because I don't think running over little kids or blowing through stop signs or other ramming barriers or taking exit ramps at 70MPH are acceptable allowances for computers on public roadways.

Stupidest take I've read all day. Interstates are extremely dangerous. That's exactly why commercial robotaxis (waymo, etc.) are not operating on interstates for public passengers. Easiest chance of death.

City streets driving is more complex but it is less dangerous by comparison.

FSD for city streets is very safe. You can see FSD driving for hours in NYC (which people would consider hard) with no intervention. Highway driving is dangerous and it will be a while before we see unsupervised on highways.

Level 3 systems such as Mercedes, Future Rivian, etc. reduce the risk by only operating at low speed on interstates with a lead car in perfect conditions. It is still not safe.

That video of FSD hitting a child and blowing through a stop sign is set up by dan o'dowd. He's known to fake these kinds of videos. He made a commercial years ago of FSD running into dummy children for the superbowl. He did it by stepping on the accelerator pedal. His argument is that you can use FSD in that way.

 

[RivianPVE]

I own the latest Tesla model with FSD and a gen1 R1S so I can be objective with their respective ADAS systems. Setting aside the unfulfilled promises made by Tesla regarding FSD, it has taken substantial steps recently in its abilities. The vision based system in my Tesla is 10 years ahead of my Rivian on the highway. I take the same freeways and my Rivian will get confused in the fast track lane and has attempted to take me into the bus lane in many occasions - dangerous enough that I don’t use it anymore when I take the fast track or carpool lanes. My Tesla, on the other hand, does the same route flawlessly on fsd. For the longest time, I believed that full self driving would never come because of all the mistakes and disengagements I saw while using the system on my previous Teslas. But after the recent updates, I am starting to become a believer that this whole full self driving thing may become real one day. I can’t speak on the gen2 Rivian ADAS because I don’t own one but anyone speaking negatively about Tesla FSD when compared to Rivian ADAS (at least gen1) from my perspective (1) does not have much experience with the latest Tesla FSD, or (2) does not like Tesla for other reasons and is creating a negative rhetoric without any sort of factual support (foolish YouTube videos does not serve this purpose). I think it’s great to love and support a brand but I don’t think it helps the brand when you can’t be objective. The latest Tesla FSD is 10 years ahead of my Rivian ADAS. It’s not even a comparison.

 

[cardad]

Will leave politics out of watch out for self drive. In our case we got rid of our teslas after several instances of the cars attempting to kill us. Have paid for self drive on 10 of our cars and frankly ashamed to have done that. Many years worth of promised that it would be ready in a year all lies or incompetence, I will leave up to you to decide. As of 4 months ago the car would take exit ramps at 70 mph despite clearly posted limits of 35. Of course we would slam on brakes to avoid going through toll booths at 70 mph but Tesla never fixed it. Once driving on the Dulles access road in the right lane it attempted to swerve onto a shoulder at 70 mph into a concrete barrier we barely avoided that maneuver. Why 70 again because we had our signal on to exit and it sped up to 70 as per its normal. Another time it tried to put us on the wrong highway quarter of a mile from our correct one. Anyway extreme caution if using “self drive)

V12 and HW3 vs v13 and HW4 have seen massive improvements. Even within v13 there have been a lot of ups and downs and generally still beta just a much more stable experience overall.

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