Frightening EV Credits

[jjswan33]

Looks like the current BBB plan framework still includes a kicker for union built BEVs:

" and the framework’s electric vehicle tax credit will lower the cost of an electric vehicle that is made in America with American materials and union labor by $12,500 for a middle-class family "

Unclear what the final language would be but appears that the anti-competitive language still exists. Also unclear if they still have a price cap. If you think it is BS like me contact your senators and representative to tell them. I already did.

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[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

CNETis reporting that $2500 of the additional credit would be for US made vehicles. An additional $2500 would be given if the vehicle is made by union workers. That IS an improvement. Not exactly what I'd like to see but definitely an improvement. The R1T would be able to get $10000 in credits.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-increase-12500-biden-build-back-better/

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

People are worried about some vehicle price cap limits and salary cap limits the have been floated as possibilities. I'd like to qualify but feel silly writing a letter to some politician or other reading along the lines of "Please keep tax credit for vehicles costing up to (insert price 1 dollar above my R1s spec here) for customers making less than (insert my annual salary plus one dollar here)." Self serving and likely to be ignored anyway.

The simple answer, in my opinion, is: anyone who wants to buy an EV should get a tax credit for it. Capping the EV tax credit based on vehicle price or income is silly, imo.

The ultra-wealthy should pay a more fair share of taxes, so we should explore ways of improving that situation -- but reducing or eliminating the EV tax credit doesn't do anything for that issue, so people should stop allowing it to be the "shiny keys" that obstructionist politicians dangle to distract the public.

 

[Enjen]

Looks like the current BBB plan framework still includes a kicker for union built BEVs:

" and the framework’s electric vehicle tax credit will lower the cost of an electric vehicle that is made in America with American materials and union labor by $12,500 for a middle-class family "

Unclear what the final language would be but appears that the anti-competitive language still exists. Also unclear if they still have a price cap. If you think it is BS like me contact your senators and representative to tell them. I already did.

As a Canadian I certainly think this is BS. The US and Canadian auto industries have worked hand-in-hand for decades to the benefit of both countries. These anti-competitive clauses will hurt the Canadian auto industry at the same time the US is seeking our help to increase mining and refinery capacity of minerals needed for EV's. It's silly, and in the end, will hurt US companies and citizens just as much because our Government will surely respond with equally damaging restrictions on US companies (like they did in response to the steel and aluminum tariffs).

 

[jjswan33]

People are worried about some vehicle price cap limits and salary cap limits the have been floated as possibilities. I'd like to qualify but feel silly writing a letter to some politician or other reading along the lines of "Please keep tax credit for vehicles costing up to (insert price 1 dollar above my R1s spec here) for customers making less than (insert my annual salary plus one dollar here)." Self serving and likely to be ignored anyway.

I understand your reticence but I think these are two different issues:

Placing income limits on the tax credits - I personally don't like it because we should want even the wealthy to choose the BEV over a polluting ICE that might cost less.

Placing a cap on the price of a vehicle - This results in people making compromises and manufacturers doing things like reducing battery capacity to reduce vehicle cost. This also has the potential to make a BEV less competitive.

 

[bd5400]

I understand your reticence but I think these are two different issues:

Placing income limits on the tax credits - I personally don't like it because we should want even the wealthy to choose the BEV over a polluting ICE that might cost less.

Income limits are also too basic of a factor and don't account for the fact that all incomes don't have the same power across the country and in all family arrangements. $100k for a single individual living in Iowa is very different than $100k for a single parent of two living in California. Not to mention a fair number of young adults with $100k plus salaries, if they have them at all, are saddled with education debt.

If there are going to be bare income limits, they need to be high enough to account for the cost of living, and raising a family, in the more expensive parts of the country. Maybe that number is $400k a year. Maybe it's $200k a year. I would argue, however, that an income limit anywhere under $200k is going to exclude some coastal families that could really benefit from the tax credit.

 

[jjswan33]

Income limits are also too basic of a factor and don't account for the fact that all incomes don't have the same power across the country and in all family arrangements. $100k for a single individual living in Iowa is very different than $100k for a single parent of two living in California. Not to mention a fair number of young adults with $100k plus salaries, if they have them at all, are saddled with education debt.

If there are going to be bare income limits, they need to be high enough to account for the cost of living, and raising a family, in the more expensive parts of the country. Maybe that number is $400k a year. Maybe it's $200k a year. I would argue, however, that an income limit anywhere under $200k is going to exclude some coastal families that could really benefit from the tax credit.

I agree with that. Previously that had quoted a 400K number but who knows until we see the final text of the legislation.

 

[kvenom]

Canada will definitely challenge this under international trade law.

 

[jjswan33]

As a Canadian I certainly think this is BS. The US and Canadian auto industries have worked hand-in-hand for decades to the benefit of both countries. These anti-competitive clauses will hurt the Canadian auto industry at the same time the US is seeking our help to increase mining and refinery capacity of minerals needed for EV's. It's silly, and in the end, will hurt US companies and citizens just as much because our Government will surely respond with equally damaging restrictions on US companies (like they did in response to the steel and aluminum tariffs).

https://insideevs.com/news/543054/us-ev-credit-concerns-canada/

Apparently maybe even breaks trade agreements between US and Canada

 

[RWerksman]

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-12500-ev-tax-credit-biden-build-back-better/

Teslarati is claiming an $80,000 cap, but the document they linked to the article doesnt mention that at all. Also, Teslarati is not exaclty the highest quality news source, so grain of salt and all that.

 

[eggpaul]

This is good news. Maybe the rivian delay just netted us an extra $2500

 

[Temerarius]

I'm not planning on any form of a credit/refund. It's kinda like Social Security, I'm pretty sure it will be gone/offer almost nothing by the time I could get anything out of it.

If it's there, "Woohooo!", but I'm not counting on it and not budgeting around it.

 

[DucRider]

If only it was as simple as a bill addressing a single issue (like EV adoption).
Instead multiple committees get their fingers in the pie and tag on other agendas. Almost always those are related to what they see their primary job to be: getting re-elected.
Usually that means catering to large campaign donors - PACs, Unions, etc. Secondarily, if it will bring a windfall or large perceived benefits to their voting block, that can get added to the agenda.
With very broad measures like BBB, there is ample opportunity to include all kinds of things that would never get passed because there is great pressure to pass something. Lots of mutual back scratching means lots of unnecessary provisions added.

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