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LaunchGreen

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On May 27, 2021 I received an email from Rivian with a link to a Story on their website that says:

1635175758387.png


So we've known for months that LE deliveries will not be completed by end of this year.
Except that multiple staff at events are quoting the end of the year. In fact, it's a great example of their communication breakdowns.
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Dbeglor

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Except that multiple staff at events are quoting the end of the year. In fact, it's a great example of their communication breakdowns.
I haven't seen a single mention of that being the case and suspect you just made it up to continue with your argument. Regardless, even if a single random employee on their first day on the job did say that, if someone (even someone who you think should be in the know) told you that the sky was in fact green, not blue, a reasonable person would weigh the totality of evidence and make their own judgement and not believe everything they hear.
 

SlaterGS

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I haven't seen a single mention of that being the case and suspect you just made it up to continue with your argument. Regardless, even if a single random employee on their first day on the job did say that, if someone (even someone who you think should be in the know) told you that the sky was in fact green, not blue, a reasonable person would weigh the totality of evidence and make their own judgement and not believe everything they hear.
Seems a little harsh considering the "totality of evidence" seems lacking. If it is there then please provide it.

In the end you believe what you want to believe.
The website? Well there are quite a few errors on it and have been for months.
CS? We know how accurate they have been
Random Employee at a hub event? See previous remark
Email? Again, we have a great track record there of being always accurate /s

I don't think what LaunchGreen said is made up as I believe I have seen it on some other threads, but need to track that down. Again, believe what you want to believe but let's not be an ass because he doesn't align with your POV.

Edit: See OP 4th paragraph. Believe what/who you want. At this point I believe that Rivian is unable to formulate a cohesive message and that is beginning to drain heavy on many of us.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/my-q-a-with-rivian-reps-at-venice-hub.2476/
 
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LaunchGreen

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I haven't seen a single mention of that being the case and suspect you just made it up to continue with your argument. Regardless, even if a single random employee on their first day on the job did say that, if someone (even someone who you think should be in the know) told you that the sky was in fact green, not blue, a reasonable person would weigh the totality of evidence and make their own judgement and not believe everything they hear.
"suspect you just made it up to continue with your argument"....

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/my-q-a-with-rivian-reps-at-venice-hub.2476/

"Both Mark and Olivia independently confirmed that all Launch Editions (including R1S) are still being sprinted to be delivered by end of CY2021 "
 

Dbeglor

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Seems a little harsh considering the "totality of evidence" seems lacking. If it is there then please provide it.

In the end you believe what you want to believe.
The website? Well there are quite a few errors on it and have been for months.
CS? We know how accurate they have been
Random Employee at a hub event? See previous remark
Email? Again, we have a great track record there of being always accurate /s

I don't think what LaunchGreen said is made up as I believe I have seen it on some other threads, but need to track that down. Again, believe what you want to believe but let's not be an ass because he doesn't align with your POV.

Edit: See OP 4th paragraph. Believe what/who you want. At this point I believe that Rivian is unable to formulate a cohesive message and that is beginning to drain heavy on many of us.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/my-q-a-with-rivian-reps-at-venice-hub.2476/
Again, what some people named Mark and Olivia say in a singular moment at a customer event and then get relayed to this forum is not the company's message or communications strategy. If you decide to take it and run with it, and then expect the company to be held accountable for it, it's insanity. For all we know, Marklivia was really just being optimistic and saying everyone was trying real hard to deliver all of them by YE, when the people actually running the company know that won't be the case (and why they have never provided that guidance). If you want to fault Rivian for not muzzling their employees at these events, go right ahead as that would be a fair argument, although it's an inevitable result of hiring thousands of people over the course of a few months with no realistic way to train them fully and ensure consistent messaging/communications throughout the entire organization.

But I stand by my comment that a reasonable person should not have taken that report and adjusted their expectations. It's completely ludicrous that if the company is officially saying Spring (and past evidence suggests they will probably even miss that), that you'd put any/more stock in what a single low-level employee spouts off at an event off the record. I won't give a pass on people being dumbasses and passing it off as someone's else's fault/problem. Personal responsibility/accountability is sorely lacking in this day and age.
 

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Again, what some people named Mark and Olivia say in a singular moment at a customer event and then get relayed to this forum is not the company's message or communications strategy. If you decide to take it and run with it, and then expect the company to be held accountable for it, it's insanity. For all we know, Marklivia was really just being optimistic and saying everyone was trying real hard to deliver all of them by YE, when the people actually running the company know that won't be the case (and why they have never provided that guidance). If you want to fault Rivian for not muzzling their employees at these events, go right ahead as that would be a fair argument, although it's an inevitable result of hiring thousands of people over the course of a few months with no realistic way to train them fully and ensure consistent messaging/communications throughout the entire organization.

But I stand by my comment that a reasonable person should not have taken that report and adjusted their expectations. It's completely ludicrous that if the company is officially saying Spring (and past evidence suggests they will probably even miss that), that you'd put any/more stock in what a single low-level employee spouts off at an event off the record. I won't give a pass on people being dumbasses and passing it off as someone's else's fault/problem. Personal responsibility/accountability is sorely lacking in this day and age.
So you flat out call somebody a liar, and when directly proven wrong, you just say "well I'm still right".

Gotta love internet forums.
 

Dbeglor

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"suspect you just made it up to continue with your argument"....

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/my-q-a-with-rivian-reps-at-venice-hub.2476/

"Both Mark and Olivia independently confirmed that all Launch Editions (including R1S) are still being sprinted to be delivered by end of CY2021 "
See other post. What Mark/Olivia may or may not have said, or translated correctly, means nothing to me and should be taken with a giant block of salt adequate to kill a horse.

These statements are nothing more than ignorant claims of hope/wishes and don't represent the views of the company. Further, they aren't even relevant to anything regarding the company, its product or their ability to deliver. It's all just material for an online jerk off while we wait for our vehicles.
 

Trekkie

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I've never made a car.

I've worked as part of a giant team who made computer servers once upon a time.

They have a ton of moving parts too, and a ton of chips/what not.

There are multiple manufacturing cycles, we had TLAs for them all, but based on the numbers here this would be what we used to call FOT, first off test. This was the first time the manufacturing line was run and we built a set amount of each configuration and put 'options' in it.

It was a small number, and usually these would go to reviewers, would go to customers who were looking at buying 100s or 1000s of them over the next year, stuff like that.

Things have changed since mid 2000s though, now you iterate a lot more often, but when you have to build things there are still points in time that are less flexible.

So these numbers to me would be first off test...first full run of the production line start to finish, no stops, and then go over it for a quality check like a hawk...

I don't think this is any indication of a date for delivery moving at all, this is just the start of the ramp, they're going to build some, iterate, build some more, increase build, iterate, etc. Those numbers should go up as long as their supply of parts is available.
 

rapPayne

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Damn, this does not give me any confidence they will hit the 'Starting January 2022' for R1S.
Starting to look more like 3Q of 2022, and that is being optimistic !
Yeah, I think you should, like, cancel your R1S. In fact, everybody in line ahead of me should immediately cancel your orders for your R1Ss.

(Hey, you can't blame me for trying. :) )
 

Craigins

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See other post. What Mark/Olivia may or may not have said, or translated correctly, means nothing to me and should be taken with a giant block of salt adequate to kill a horse.

These statements are nothing more than ignorant claims of hope/wishes and don't represent the views of the company. Further, they aren't even relevant to anything regarding the company, its product or their ability to deliver. It's all just material for an online jerk off while we wait for our vehicles.
From what I remember, Marklivia said they were "planning" on, and "sprinting to". The current goal is "Spring 2022". They are trying to aim for end of CY2021. Never a bad thing to attempt to beat your goal.

If people are reading "planning" and "sprinting" and translating that into "said they would deliver by", that's just a failure of reading comprehension. Both of those terms express a level of doubt.

Once again, bringing in the Scotty reference, tell them it will take 2x as long, deliver in half the time, and look great.

I guess other people want to fall into the Yoda camp, "Do or do not. There is no try"
 

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LaunchGreen

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See other post. What Mark/Olivia may or may not have said, or translated correctly, means nothing to me and should be taken with a giant block of salt adequate to kill a horse.

These statements are nothing more than ignorant claims of hope/wishes and don't represent the views of the company. Further, they aren't even relevant to anything regarding the company, its product or their ability to deliver. It's all just material for an online jerk off while we wait for our vehicles.

The reality is that they:
a) continually miscommunicate or lack communication at all levels
b) move the goal posts and/or are deceptive in their communication (a CFO getting their truck is not something most companies would call a public event)
c) repeatedly adjust their already adjusted communication
d) consistently miss their adjusted-adjusted-adjusted goals

I don't know how hard this is, but I work in a complex business myself and manage public launches that reach nearly one billion people a month. Everyone knows that you set expectations that you can exceed, especially when you've failed multiple times. IMO, they should have pushed the delivery start date back to January in June and surprised us all when a non-employee got theirs in November or December. We would be so excited. Of course, they would have had to delay their $80b value IPO which might have been too big of a pill to swallow.

I admire your loyalty and I'm happy that they are progressing, but I don't think they get a free pass on this or they won't improve. At the very least, the feedback will hopefully cause them to improve in the future. I believe it's 4 weeks until all pre-holders are contacted - let's see if they hit that...
 

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I bet some people are waiting for an owner to take their truck to Doug DeMuro to film all the quirks and features before they'll believe customer deliveries have started. Or for some youtuber to get a delivery and produce a bunch of videos.

And no - I don't expect any Rivian employee to hand over their keyfob to Doug....I wouldn't if I was them. Could you imagine being the employee responsible for a luke-warm review right now? right before the IPO where all the employees are hoping their RSUs will skyrocket...

I have been waiting since Dec 2018 for my R1S. I even have a 2nd pre-order for an R1T (not LE). I want my Rivians ASAP. But I also have a Model 3 from 2019 that has pretty mediocre fit/finish.... So I am more than happy to let Rivian take an extra few months to get them right.
 
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SlaterGS

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I don't think they get a free pass on this or they won't improve. At the very least, the feedback will hopefully cause them to improve in the future. I believe it's 4 weeks until all pre-holders are contacted - let's see if they hit that...
This right here. I'm a big Rivian fan, but no fanboy should be unwilling to critique to work towards something better.
Constantly dumping on them and being a troll isn't helpful either *looks at Peashooter*
 

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From what I remember, Marklivia said they were "planning" on, and "sprinting to". The current goal is "Spring 2022". They are trying to aim for end of CY2021. Never a bad thing to attempt to beat your goal.

If people are reading "planning" and "sprinting" and translating that into "said they would deliver by", that's just a failure of reading comprehension. Both of those terms express a level of doubt.

Once again, bringing in the Scotty reference, tell them it will take 2x as long, deliver in half the time, and look great.

I guess other people want to fall into the Yoda camp, "Do or do not. There is no try"
Yes, this too. Plan does not equal promise.
 

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It's ony disappointing because you have set your own expectations which in hindsight were not realistic. Rivian committed to starting deliveries in September but never specified any production counts, and everyone has been discussing for months that employees would likely get the first deliveries. Just as Rivian is offering order holders pre-IPO stock, Rivian almost certainly opened pre-ordering of vehicles to employees before the general public. They were in line before us. Why shouldn't they get their vehicles first?

From a manufacturing, financial, business and legal viewpoint, Rivian vehicles are being delivered to customers. They are paying for the vehicles and registering them in multiple states. Rivian is receiving income from the sale. And I'm pretty sure the Rivian employees who have taken delivery consider themselves customers as well, especially when they make the car payment each month.

Because they may not openly criticize the product does not in any way disqualify them as being a customer.
typically employee vehicle purchases are a a deeply discounted price.
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