Gen2 with 21" inch wheels could break new range #s?

[phaduman]

So with Gen1 R1T with Max Pack, the penalty from 21 -> 22in wheel is 30miles. 410miles with 21in, and 380 miles with 22.

With Gen2 R1T Max Pack with 22in is 420 miles. I wonder if Rivian kept the 21in wheel as an option, could we see a range approaching 450miles on Max Pack? Couldn't that be such a competitive advantage for Rivian? 21in also ride smoother, and, we have doubled the tire options from 1 to 2 - the Michelin Defender being a winner ($360/tire on 21in).

I just wonder with all the 21in wheel sets being sold for cheap, if they fit into Gen2 cars, we could all get to 450+ range?

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[CharonPDX]

The previous 22 inch wheels+tire combo included "performance" tires that were lower-efficiency. The new 22 inch "efficiency" wheel+tire combo has higher-efficiency tires. Presumably that makes the efficiency difference up. (Scorpion Zero on prior performance, Scorpion MS on new efficiency.)

What's odd is that when you pick one of the "sport" wheels in the configurator, the preview shows Scorpion Zero, but when you click on the little 'info i' to see more, it shows Scorpion MS on all 22" wheels.

 

[phaduman]

Good data - thanks for sharing. For a moment, I was going to claim the first rivian with 450 range -

 

[anthonysfl]

So with Gen1 R1T with Max Pack, the penalty from 21 -> 22in wheel is 30miles. 410miles with 21in, and 380 miles with 22.

With Gen2 R1T Max Pack with 22in is 420 miles. I wonder if Rivian kept the 21in wheel as an option, could we see a range approaching 450miles on Max Pack? Couldn't that be such a competitive advantage for Rivian? 21in also ride smoother, and, we have doubled the tire options from 1 to 2 - the Michelin Defender being a winner ($360/tire on 21in).

I just wonder with all the 21in wheel sets being sold for cheap, if they fit into Gen2 cars, we could all get to 450+ range?

The most efficient Rivian setup is 20’s on 275/60/20 all season tires. My R1S on 20’s with 275/60/20 AS tires is 7% more efficient than my R1T with 21’s.

 

[Osyras]

FWIW the factory 22's on the gen 2 are the same diameter as the factory 21's on the gen1.

 

[phaduman]

Interesting. On Gen2, there is an option to buy with 20in rims and 275/60/20 AS tires - Wranglers I think - and the official range is 380miles, 10 miles better than 20 AT and 40 miles lower than the 22 with AS.

 

[ElGuano]

I suspect that larger wheels mean more metal, and more rolling weight, so fewer miles. So all things being equal, a smaller wheel with a higher tire (for the same total diameter) will be better for range?

 

[anthonysfl]

Interesting. On Gen2, there is an option to buy with 20in rims and 275/60/20 AS tires - Wranglers I think - and the official range is 380miles, 10 miles better than 20 AT and 40 miles lower than the 22 with AS.

The wranglers are not all season tires. I’m not sure why Rivian keeps pushing this lie. Go on Goodyears website and you’ll see they classify them as a AT tire.

 

[anthonysfl]

I suspect that larger wheels mean more metal, and more rolling weight, so fewer miles. So all things being equal, a smaller wheel with a higher tire (for the same total diameter) will be better for range?

That is correct, regardless of ICE or EV. Smaller wheels are more efficient.

 

[Eric9610]

If you get a 20" aero wheel then its ultimate range. All open design rims that are available cause turbulence that = resistance. on the 21's with aero off its a 5-10 mile range penalty. If you went with a forged aero 20 and Defenders you would have the ultimate setup.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

It’s not wheel size that made the difference. It’s tire compound (rolling resistance), weight and weight distribution of wheel and tire combined (angular momentum). Plus, to lesser effect, aerodynamics.

 

[anthonysfl]

It’s not wheel size that made the difference. It’s tire compound (rolling resistance), weight and weight distribution of wheel and tire combined (angular momentum). Plus, to lesser effect, aerodynamics.

Old article but still true nonetheless.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15130598/upsized-wheels-tires/

 

[Riviot]

The wranglers are not all season tires. I’m not sure why Rivian keeps pushing this lie. Go on Goodyears website and you’ll see they classify them as a AT tire.

Even that is a stretch, they're more All Weather tires. Jack of all trades, by @B Digs

If you get a 20" aero wheel then its ultimate range. All open design rims that are available cause turbulence that = resistance. on the 21's with aero off its a 5-10 mile range penalty. If you went with a forged aero 20 and Defenders you would have the ultimate setup.

I did a test of 20" staple wheels with aero inserts, no change.

I did a test of AS tires on 20" staple wheels, same tires on RAM 2363 wheels, and same diameter ATs on RAM 2363 (all with over 1k wear, so broken in). 2363s were more efficient, despite offset sticking it out .5" more.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ciency-comparison-ram-as-ram-at-oem-as.28080/

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Even that is a stretch, they're more All Weather tires. Jack of all trades, by @B Digs



I did a test of 20" staple wheels with aero inserts, no change.

I did a test of AS tires on 20" staple wheels, same tires on RAM 2363 wheels, and same diameter ATs on RAM 2363 (all with over 1k wear, so broken in). 2363s were more efficient, despite offset sticking it out .5" more.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ciency-comparison-ram-as-ram-at-oem-as.28080/

Yup... people are taking "AT" far too literally (and comically upsetting themselves over nothing). Within each class of tires there are different tiers. The All Terrain class is no different. Even the factory Scorpion AT (Rivian edition) is arguably not on par with what most people consider to be "true" ATs (compared to BFG KO2, for instance). Like many things in real life, it isn't either black or white. It's that and all shades in between.

Why the confusion? For each class of tires there are different consumer tastes/demands. For sake of profitability and financial sustainability, tire manufacturers tweak tire designs to suit different levels tastes/demands. Some ATs are far more off-road oriented than others. Just the same, some are far more pavement oriented than others; this sub-class is where the Goodyear Territory AT sits.

 

[ElGuano]

Why the confusion? For each class of tires there are different consumer tastes/demands. For sake of profitability and financial sustainability, tire manufacturers tweak tire designs to suit different levels tastes/demands. Some ATs are far more off-road oriented than others. Just the same, some are far more pavement oriented than others; this sub-class is where the Goodyear Territory AT sits.

I recently saw a video claiming how the "3 peak snowflake" rating is utterly bogus, essentially it means the tire does at least 10% better than a 14" reference tire from the 1980s, and that its primary purpose is to be easy to pass and for tire companies to have another checkmark to sell to.

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