Trump to kill EV tax credit (11/14/24 article) -- [ADMIN WARNING: INFRACTIONS ISSUED FOR VIOLATING NO POLITICS RULE]

[thair]

To think getting rid of a $7500 tax credit won't hurt EV sales is putting your head in the sand. It won't kill the industry, but it will definitely put a drag on sales and hurt a company like Rivian at a time when they can't afford an additional headwind.

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[Jonger1150]

I just didn't think this is as bad as everyone thinks. The EV tax credit, like the solar tax credit, only served to artificially inflate the cost of these items after a period of initial early adoption. Without the tax credit, EVs can finally compete with each other, and ICE, on more accurate pricing.

In 5 years this will all shake out and the market will be at least 20% to 35% EV.

Probably closer to 30%.

It's about who survives in the meanwhile.

If any of the domestic automakers are able to successfully roll back the CAFE standards and extend internal combustion another decade -- I say the incoming democratic president in 2028 should just lift the tariffs and let the Chinese horde in. The environment is more important than the economy.

It's not even a certain that the average American will benefit economically from the tariffs. Try telling a single mother making $35,000 a year that jobs in Detroit are more important than her buying a cheap fast charging EV from BYD for $25,000. The cheapest EV is $42,000.

 

[thebwk]

What if we didn't have EV credit to begin with?

Are you saying that you only bought or buy/lease Rivian because there was EV tax credit?

I get that once one has something and is being taken away, there is a feeling of anger and slight, as well as goes against one's general principle.

Personally, I am glad with the notion of EV tax credits going away. It never made any sense to me. Make a compelling products and people will buy them. Already, there are heavy discounts for EVs, just as there are for ICE vehicles by the legacy automakers.

My thought is if the federal government keeps any portion of EV credits, it should be for those that make less than $60k/yr for single, or $100K/yr for joint AGI filers for vehicles that cost less than $50K regardless of sedan or SUV.

Finally, a sensible response. Anyone purchasing a luxury EV like Rivian shouldn't need the tax credit to make it feasible.

 

[mkg3]

To think getting rid of a $7500 tax credit won't hurt EV sales is putting your head in the sand. It won't kill the industry, but it will definitely put a drag on sales and hurt a company like Rivian at a time when they can't afford an additional headwind.

Most definitely will hurt overall EV sales. Don't know how much it will hurt Rivian sales though. Other than a basic model, all other R1S do not qualify due to cost.

It seems that $7.5k lease credit is a big hit, since it has now price limit. I guess the manufactures will need to continue the incentives if they want keep their vehicles out the door. It will be out of their pockets, not the taxpayers'.

 

[Golfer04]

Most definitely will hurt overall EV sales. Don't know how much it will hurt Rivian sales though. Other than a basic model, all other R1S do not qualify due to cost.

It seems that $7.5k lease credit is a big hit, since it has now price limit. I guess the manufactures will need to continue the incentives if they want keep their vehicles out the door. It will be out of their pockets, not the taxpayers'.

I always had mixed feelings about the tax credit, but according to Warren Buffet at the 2023 Berkshire annual meeting (you can listen on youtube) S & P 500 corporate tax credits exceeded the amount paid in by ALL individual tax payers. If the 500 largest companies get them to that level why shouldn't we?

Want to more than balance the budget? Eliminate all of them.

 

[thair]

Most definitely will hurt overall EV sales. Don't know how much it will hurt Rivian sales though. Other than a basic model, all other R1S do not qualify due to cost.

It seems that $7.5k lease credit is a big hit, since it has now price limit. I guess the manufactures will need to continue the incentives if they want keep their vehicles out the door. It will be out of their pockets, not the taxpayers'.

It would be a big blow to R2.

 

[vandy1981]

It’s quite arduous getting regulatory approval

I favor an arduous approval process for devices you want to implant in human brains.

 

[TerryInHouston]

Yeah because Tariff's never impact inflation/cost of goods which was supposedly one of the top issues this go around (amongst a few others).

Tariffs will impact everyone on all sides - but it is required to fight back at China and India !!!!!!

But most of our problems would go away if all the welfare and unemployment cheats would go to jail !

 

[TerryInHouston]

Yes, tariff everything and tax the people that already can not afford EV's for everything they buy. I guess that is what the american ppl have said they want though so lets really bring that inflation on.

Well someone is just for the squid-pro-stabus - keep doing what we are doing until we are begging China.

 

[vandy1981]

Suppose there was no EV tax credit on any EV. What would you have bought instead of R1S?

I did buy R1S and would have without any tax credit. It was the vehicle I wanted, not tax credit.

We would not have traded in our Lightning for an R1S if we couldn't claim the pre-IRA tax credit. At the time we were also considering a Ford Expedition, so we would probably have either stuck with the Lightning or bought the Expedition if the tax credit was (edit: wasn't) there.

We are not hurting financially, but the $7500 was enough to sway us towards the R1S because we're cheap and it put it on price parity with the Expedition.

 

[mkg3]

It would be a big blow to R2.

None of us know that yet.

At pricing around $50K, it's competitive against all other SUVs including ICE vehicles. And R3 is supposed to be lower cost than R2.

I just think that we all have been trained to think tax credit offset, when we consider EVs. Now we have to look at EVs for its own merit.

 

[captainjp]

Starting a car company is exceedingly difficult. Before Tesla, there hadn't been a new auto OEM in the US for 100 years for a reason.

All OEMs not named Telsa,, Rivian, and Lucid rely on legacy ICE $$ sales to offset the Billions in losses from their EV sales.

Rivian has been losing Billions every year and they don't have legacy ICE to offset that.

They don't have economies of scale yet and are no where near vertically integrated like Tesla. They only recently negotiated better contracts with their suppliers.

They are at a critical time in their young life as a company and losing the credit could kill them.

I think you overlooked the fact that legacy ICE companies are subsidizing Tesla, Rivian and Lucid by purchasing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of green credits from them. They’ll be fine

 

[mkg3]

We would not have traded in our Lightning for an R1S if we couldn't claim the pre-IRA tax credit. At the time we were also considering a Ford Expedition, so we would probably have either stuck with the Lightning or bought the Expedition if the tax credit was there.

We are not hurting financially, but the $7500 was enough to sway us towards the R1S because we're cheap and it put it on price parity with the Expedition.

Interesting. So you'd gotten the tax credit for the Lightning and trade it in for R1S. Its a very short period of time, since the Lightning release wasn't that long ago.

It's also interesting that you choice option was an ICE vs EV. It sounds like, and my guess is that, your criteria is cost first, then size. If it happens to be an EV, good but not necessary.

Well, perhaps more people are like you than me in that I place what it is over what it costs, within the realm of affordable range.

 

[Newtonrj]

I think you overlooked the fact that legacy ICE companies are subsidizing Tesla, Rivian and Lucid by purchasing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of green credits from them. They’ll be fine

It’s also more than a little disingenuous to Hummer, DeLorean, Fisker and the hundred others that are out there in the sales struggle bus. I’m sure most would happily trade place with Rivian to get their sales, engineering and even this forums engagement participation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Can admin lock this thread? Every third comment is a violation of the no politics rule.

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