Trump to kill EV tax credit (11/14/24 article) -- [ADMIN WARNING: INFRACTIONS ISSUED FOR VIOLATING NO POLITICS RULE]

[M3_R2]

Rivian isn't really starting from scratch though like the early days of EV's. They have drawn from other companies for some of their employees and have gained from the advances already made. So I don't see them as being put at so much of a disadvantage.

I hope they and Scout each survive and thrive separately.

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[SASSquatch]

Rivian isn't really starting from scratch though like the early days of EV's. They have drawn from other companies for some of their employees and have gained from the advances already made. So I don't see them as being put at so much of a disadvantage.

I hope they and Scout each survive and thrive separately.

Starting a car company is exceedingly difficult. Before Tesla, there hadn't been a new auto OEM in the US for 100 years for a reason.

All OEMs not named Telsa,, Rivian, and Lucid rely on legacy ICE $$ sales to offset the Billions in losses from their EV sales.

Rivian has been losing Billions every year and they don't have legacy ICE to offset that.

They don't have economies of scale yet and are no where near vertically integrated like Tesla. They only recently negotiated better contracts with their suppliers.

They are at a critical time in their young life as a company and losing the credit could kill them.

 

[ukyank]

I assume, since they don't want to pick winners and losers, that they'll also be ending subsidies for oil and gas? I would sure hate for them to favor one energy supply over another.

Electric utilities are heavily subsidized

 

[vandy1981]

Elon gives 2 shits about EVs and his competition. Trust me.

All he cares about his fortune and power. He now finds himself in a position to direct the regulators that oversee all of his businesses.

There is so much conflict of interest in this arrangement, but...

 

[Hillbilly]

Not this Sassquatch!

Sasquatch are a Jill Stein demographic.

 

[Hillbilly]

It'll be fine y'all. What it really means is that fewer legacy brands will try their hand at ev development and pushing competitive models at the old price points without the subsidy in place.

It could allow rivian to be more profitable.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Brian, congrats on the R1T, and I'm glad you are in a financial situation that allows you to consider such a large purchase that you wouldn't need the credit even for a vehicle as expensive as the Silverado EV.

Unfortunately, the majority of Americans are not in your situation and given that EVs, on average, still cost significantly more than their ICE or hybrid counterparts, most american families aren't in a financial situation where they could consider an EV without that credit, especially considering the need to invest in home charging infrastructure, and pay a premium when registering the vehicle, deal with the hassles of an underdeveloped national EV network, etc.

In order for mass adoption to occur, which is what we need to reduce fossil fuel emissions enough to make a difference in terms of CO2 emissions, we need to reduce the barrier of entry for the masses.

I've heard this same thing repeated by many people, so I'm not picking on you specifically. If you cannot afford an EV without the 7500 dollar credit, you cannot afford one with the credit either. The reality is a Silverado EV is 70-100K, and with a high dollar amount, 7500 isn't make or break on affordability—same thing with an R1.

If someone is in that on the bubble type situation they are much better served buying a used model a couple years old with a few miles on it. For example I paid 84K for my truck in September of '22. I am trading it in for a new Tri motor a week from tomorrow and Rivian is giving me 51K for it with 37K miles on it. There is nothing wrong with it, my power tonneau still works well even.

Instead of worrying about the credit, someone could wait a couple of years and get 30K off instead of stretching for the 7500. The credit should make little difference; the people who can afford one still can, and those who cannot buy used. There are tons of used EVs these days, as people like myself are trading in and getting new ones.

 

[Zoidz]

All he cares about his fortune and power. He now finds himself in a position to direct the regulators that oversee all of his businesses.

There is so much conflict of interest in this arrangement, but...

While discussing his DOGE Goverment advisory role, Leon said:

“It’s quite arduous getting regulatory approval,” Musk said while discussing his Neuralink startup that develops implantable brain-computer interfaces. “It does slow us down, and I think we should be able to go faster in the US with advancing Neuralink technology and other technologies that are out there unrelated to my company.”

 

[md2023]

I've heard this same thing repeated by many people, so I'm not picking on you specifically. If you cannot afford an EV without the 7500 dollar credit, you cannot afford one with the credit either. The reality is a Silverado EV is 70-100K, and with a high dollar amount, 7500 isn't make or break on affordability—same thing with an R1.

If someone is in that on the bubble type situation they are much better served buying a used model a couple years old with a few miles on it. For example I paid 84K for my truck in September of '22. I am trading it in for a new Tri motor a week from tomorrow and Rivian is giving me 51K for it with 37K miles on it. There is nothing wrong with it, my power tonneau still works well even.

Instead of worrying about the credit, someone could wait a couple of years and get 30K off instead of stretching for the 7500. The credit should make little difference; the people who can afford one still can, and those who cannot buy used. There are tons of used EVs these days, as people like myself are trading in and getting new ones.

I would generally agree with you about cars in the R1 price range. I do think the tax credit can play a role in affordability in the $25-45k range (and obviously, more EVs in this price range are needed for this to be a reality). I also believe there is a moderate psychological impact of the tax credit that helps sales of EVs. Whether there should be is up for argument, but I believe there is.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

While discussing his DOGE Goverment advisory role, Leon said:

“It’s quite arduous getting regulatory approval,” Musk said while discussing his Neuralink startup that develops implantable brain-computer interfaces. “It does slow us down, and I think we should be able to go faster in the US with advancing Neuralink technology and other technologies that are out there unrelated to my company.”

Doesn’t surprise me that Musk couldn’t care less about safety of the public. Look at how terrible and dangerous his FSD is and how he thinks he should have even less oversight on it.

 

[docwhiz]

The idiot Tesla fanbois are touting the as a win.
They think it will drive the EV competition out of business.
Profits for Tesla are more important than the environment.

 

[GJPoss]

Is anyone really surprised? You could see it coming from miles away… or at least since nov 5th

Surprised??? Hell yeah I was surprised at the AG nomination!!!! Oh...you mean EV tax credit. It's too bad it's such a political football and never really considered in the context of a strategy of what's actually good for the nation. I give up.

 

[TerryInHouston]

Why should the 90% without an EV - pay for the middle upper class 10% buying EVs? - that never made since......

As to tax credits - the USA needs mfg back !!!! - There should be BIG tax credits for Everything MADE IN THE USA !!!!!!

(not assembled in the USA).

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I would generally agree with you about cars in the R1 price range. I do think the tax credit can play a role in affordability in the $25-45k range (and obviously, more EVs in this price range are needed for this to be a reality). I also believe there is a moderate psychological impact of the tax credit that helps sales of EVs. Whether there should be is up for argument, but I believe there is.

You’re right, there is a psychological component to the tax credit disappearing. Just look at all the doom and gloom reactions to it on this thread. Perhaps the tax credit would play a role in affordability in the 25-45k dollar range but the fact remains that used cars are still an option for those people as well.

There are always going to be people who can afford the car at the price point without an incentive. The issue is most people simply cannot afford a car that’s 90k. When we get to the 25-45 bracket that’s a substantial chunk of the population who are shopping in that price range

Credit or not, the starting price of 45k for the R2 is going to open Rivian up to a large market. I’ve seen the production intent R2 and at that price range if it drives at all like my R1, it’s going to be popular credit or not. I don’t think the credit is make or break either way. Considering if Trump repeals it he will do so in a couple months, at least a year before R2’s release. That gives plenty of time for the psychological sting to wear off.

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