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ElGuano

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Are these changes generally consistent? Eg., large pack is the smaller between gen1 and gen2, but the rated range is similar. Does that mean the Max pack--which is the same size between generations--now more range?
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Davethadog

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At least they’ve updated their site to reflect somewhat realish numbers. Expecting folks to get 3mi/kwh and advertising your cars as capable of that is borderline fraudulent.
 

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Wow - so the G2 trucks are getting 3mi/kWh rated (on street tires)? Bananas.
If you're going 50-60 on flat ground on a sunny day - yes. If you're driving like a normal human being no.


If Gen2's are regularly achieving 3mi/Kwh in normal driving, I'll eat my own shoe.
Congrats! Your shoe can survive another day

In my G2 R1S I average 2.3-2.4 mi/kwh. And I'm actually pretty happy with that, given that Utah highways tend to flow at 80 and I do a lot of highway driving
 

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At least they’ve updated their site to reflect somewhat realish numbers. Expecting folks to get 3mi/kwh and advertising your cars as capable of that is borderline fraudulent.
Sure, but ICE manufacturers have been doing that for decades. I think my '92 Integra was the only vehicle I remember getting the numbers advertised...maybe even a little better. My wife's A5 Cabrio is rated at 33MPG highway, and I can barely get 31 on our trips that involve almost exclusively interstate driving. That's why there's always an ** next to the numbers...it gives them legal cover by saying "the numbers are estimates and will vary base on driving conditions...blah blah blah...".
 

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Hilbe

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Why did Large get nerfed?
Higher efficiency. Make the same or better range at a lower cost. Gen 2 is about cutting costs to turn a profit.
 

TomServo2112

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If Gen2's are regularly achieving 3mi/Kwh in normal driving, I'll eat my own shoe.

Yeah its how the average person drives the vehicle. In congested Socal traffic, I can hypermile it and get >3 mi/kwh during my 40 mile commute to work. But driving home, I just want to get home, so I go faster, and on a whole, will average 2.6-2.7 on the overall commute (implying I'm getting 2.3-2.4 hightailing it home). I think average driving will make it very difficult to get close to 3mi/kwh.
Yeah we need to define "regularly" & "normal driving." If it's specific to your style, then the Gen 2 would likely do better than your own Gen 1 observations, if driven by you under the same conditions. On my Gen 2 I regularly have drives of greater than 3mi/kwh, but also regularly have drives of less than that. It feels like it usually happens based on variables outside of my control (temperatures, traffic, passengers or other payload, etc), than my driving style, with exceptions for being lead-footed once in a while.

On average, in about 4600 miles of ownership I'm at 2.55mi/kwh, but about 3500 of those miles have been road tripping at 65-85mph from sea-level to 11,000ft. For me "normal driving" would be around town and a work commute. I expect better than 2.55 in that scenario but haven't put it to the test yet. I doubt it'll get to 3mi/kwh on average over even a month of ownership, but your criteria was "regularly," so I say bust out the ketchup for your shoe. ??

Regardless, even at 2.55 it matches my wife's Audi Q8 e-tron which seems astonishing for its size and weight. I think I've had two cars ever that have nearly always met or exceeded EPA ratings. A 2005 Prius and a 2020 Taycan. I do wish Rivian rated theirs a bit more on the conservative side in order to overachieve, but then again I likely would not have gotten the Large+ if they did that. I can get to Vegas with zero stops from 100%, so that's good enough for me.
 
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mpshizzle

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Higher efficiency. Make the same or better range at a lower cost. Gen 2 is about cutting costs to turn a profit.
Gen 2 is ineed more effecient. But only just. (for dual motor) it's the same motors with the same body and aero. The very slight efficiency gain, unfortunately was no match for the much more significant battery capacity change.


To sell more max packs. For gen 1 the price difference vs range improvement on the upgrade to the max pack didn't make sense for most people.
Personally I think this is the real reason. The Max battery was not worth the extra cost on gen 1. It was only a bit better than large, but at a significant cost. By making the Large battery worse, they can make the max seem like a better deal. I think they overcorrected though. I think they should have made the max 150 or the large 120 to hit a happy medium
 

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I live in the suburbs of Detroit (aka not Detroit) and near the country. I just got my gen2. When I drive around town to my work taking back roads, I regularly get over 3 mi/kwh with the HVAC off. But my normal moving speed is 35-50. One of my first trips I was going about 5 under the speed limit following a very slow car for much of the drive, and I was maxing out the 4 mi/kwh graph to average high 3's.

However, I just took a trip across the state and my average on the freeway (trying to go 79 most of the time, but there was traffic) I got about 2.3. Around town I got more, but Rivian records energy usage when not driving (unlikely Tesla), so, my overall trip average was 2.3 with HVAC use most of the time. On the freeway, I was getting mostly 2.1 or 2.2.
 

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But is the Gen2 dual motor really more efficient than than the Gen1 dual motor? The motors are identical, exact same power output. The shape of the vehicle is the same. The 22" tires went from Scorpion All Season to Scorpion MS - that probably added a little from lower rolling resistance. Gen2 has a little less vampire drain when parked too. But all that cannot possibly improve efficiency from 2.7 (352 miles on dual motor large battery gen 1, 131kwh) to >3 (330 miles on dual motor large battery gen 2, 108kwh).
 

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If Gen2's are regularly achieving 3mi/Kwh in normal driving, I'll eat my own shoe.
I have to agree, especially in places like SoCal where lots of highway and higher mph streets. I found in places like New England with lots of back roads with speed limits between 40 and 50 I could get 2.6-2.8 in my G1 R1S pretty consistently.

I did a 7400 mile trip a couple of months ago pretty much doing the speed limit and got 2.32 mi/kWh on my G1 R1S using conserve on most of the highway stretches.

I did a similar 6500 mile trip in a rear wheel drive R1S and got 3.2 miles/kWh, I just can’t see an R1S or R1T being that close to the Model S. I think real world 2.75 would be attainable though in a dual motor with the efficiency changes they have made.

R1S
Rivian R1T R1S Updated: Usable Battery Capacity kWh Data (as of 10/22/24) IMG_3869

Model S
Rivian R1T R1S Updated: Usable Battery Capacity kWh Data (as of 10/22/24) IMG_3870
 

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But is the Gen2 dual motor really more efficient than than the Gen1 dual motor? The motors are identical, exact same power output. The shape of the vehicle is the same. The 22" tires went from Scorpion All Season to Scorpion MS - that probably added a little from lower rolling resistance. Gen2 has a little less vampire drain when parked too. But all that cannot possibly improve efficiency from 2.7 (352 miles on dual motor large battery gen 1, 131kwh) to >3 (330 miles on dual motor large battery gen 2, 108kwh).
The Gen 1 dual motors are made by Bosch, I believe, and the Gen 2s were made in-house. Could there be design efficiencies that result in the same power output? Or does equal power = equally inefficient, regardless of design? Additionally, they also removed a lot of electrical wiring (a mile and a half, I think has been reported) so presumably there is a weight savings-based efficiency gain there as well. I don't know the details of any other changes between Gen 1 & 2 that could result in gains.
 

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I'm very happy i snagged a Standard+ rather than going for a Gen 2, since the large wasn't available for my pre-order voucher. I get Similar range to a Large, with a potential upgrade path in the future to offset degradation. The additional estimated range, light bar and ADAS would be nice, but even that is an additional $5k over my price. I didn't want a standard lfp (do to non performance option) and the max was too much money for my budget.
 

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