Really prefer low regen, but would like option for brake-only regen and saving as default profile

[DD4ST]

I have been exploring the latest software update and really like the lower regen as the standard regen seemed to slow down too suddenly when releasing cruise control. It also seems by my perception that the accelerator pedal “resistance” is lessened for a more comfortable driving experience when not using cruise control. But honestly I am not a huge fan of one-pedal driving but I realize there are those that are. I think Rivian not enabling a no regen mode from the accelerator pedal smacks of an elitist attitude that I must conform to something different. I’d like to see that option where brakes use regen but I can coast with the accelerator pedal. In addition I’d like the ability to set whatever regen mode as my default rather than have Rivian always go back to standard regen. Anybody else feel the same way?

Sponsored

 

[mpshizzle]

Sadly it's not as simple as using the brake pedal to enable Regen.

Some other EVs have that ability, but it's because they use a brake by wire system where the pedal is not physically connected to anything. A great example of this is the mustang Mach E. You can turn off one pedal driving (which *mostly* turns off Regen on release of the accelerator). The result is the brake pedal introduces Regen and then blends in friction brakes. The downside to this system is that it results in a brake pedal that has absolutely zero feedback, and reacts rather unpredictably. That is an aspect of the mach e that customers REGULARLY complain about. The brake pedal dynamics are a huge pain point for the customers.

Tesla and Rivian on the other hand have a more traditional brake pedal that is physically connected to the friction brakes. While you can introduce some regen with this system, the amount is limited due to the fact that the friction brakes are immediately engaged. The result of this system is a brake feel that is much more predictable and controlable.

I currently own a Tesla and a Mach E, with an R1T on order. I drive both of them in one pedal mode, so it doesn't make a huge difference, but when it does come to using the brake pedal I much prefer the tesla. It is so much more predictable and controllable.

As a side note - Regen is HUGELY important for an EV's efficiency and range in city driving. Eliminating Regen would KILL range in the City. I personally prefer one pedal driving, because that way I can make sure I'm taking advantage of as much region as possible. In situations where I need more aggressive breaking and have to use the pedal, there's a physical separation where I can choose to give up regen where needed.

Personally in my time in R1 I actually prefer the high Regen mode. One pedal certainly takes some getting used to. And changing some habits. Such as putting your foot lightly on the accelerator before disengaging Cruise. But as far as driving Dynamics with regen, I wouldn't trade it

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

My wife prefers high regen in her R1S and myself in the R1T as well. I couldn't imagine ever using the new low regen mode the way the current R1's drive under regen.

 

[SwampNut]

I’m overly angry at having to drive ICE and use the damn brake pedal. Terrible.

 

[R1DEW/ME]

I’m curious to see how low regen is once I get my R1S back from the SC. I’ve grown fond of one pedal driving and 100% prefer it over having to switch pedals. That being said exiting cruise control from high regen can be jarring.

I know some recently mentioned that low regen for longer high way trips would results in better efficiency.

Given that this is in fact true ( gotta test for myself) an option for preset driving profile that change depending on circumstance would be AMAZING!

Imagine being able to have your car automatically go from AP/Auto/High while under let’s says 50 mph and switch to Conserve/Lowest/Low once you exceed 65 mph for more then ~5miles.

Even an option for sensing rougher terrain on below 20 mph to auto switch to off road etc. Of course give us the options to turn off such a feature but seamlessly switch without me having to open up screen and take focus off road.

 

[mpshizzle]

I know some recently mentioned that low regen for longer high way trips would results in better efficiency.

True fact - less regen gives better efficiency on the highway. Regen inherently introduces losses with the inverter, wiring, etc. So on the highway with only minor speed changes the benefit of Regen doesn't overcome the losses of using it (but we're talking like 5% or less of a difference in efficiency by my reckoning. It's very minor)

In the city, on the other hand, where you are frequently stopping, that's not the case. Regen is a HUGE benefit. The more the better

 

[DucRider]

The downside to this system is that it results in a brake pedal that has absolutely zero feedback, and reacts rather unpredictably. That is an aspect of the mach e that customers REGULARLY complain about. The brake pedal dynamics are a huge pain point for the customers.

Just because one model/brand was unable to implement blended braking successfully doesn't mean it cannot be done.
Porsche and Polestar (and likely others I haven't had the chance to drive hard enough)have excellent braking feel and few drivers can detect the point where the friction pads engage. Porsche eschews one pedal driving and Polestar lets the user decide. I've had the chance to push both standard and Performance (Brembo brake equipped) Polestar 2s on a short track and both have great feel.

An advanced blended system does not sacrifice feel. Gen3 Formula E cars use blended braking on the front wheels (using a motor dedicated to regen) and only regen in the rear. There is no hydraulic or mechanical system in the rear. Drive power is limited to 350 kW, but regen is up to 600kW.
https://jalopnik.com/racing-tech-why-formula-e-cars-dont-need-rear-hydrauli-1850352205

 

[mpshizzle]

Just because one model/brand was unable to implement blended braking successfully doesn't mean it cannot be done.

This is true - a pure brake by wire system doesn't HAVE to feel bad. (But at this point most do). I don't know what kind of system polestar uses, but Porsche uses a hybrid braking system that is quite complex and expensive, but seems to work pretty well.

But yes I was oversimplifying my explanation. But the point still stands - The braking system Rivian chose to use does not allow for full Regen with the brake pedal.

 

[Surferdude]

Sadly it's not as simple as using the brake pedal to enable Regen.

Some other EVs have that ability, but it's because they use a brake by wire system where the pedal is not physically connected to anything. A great example of this is the mustang Mach E. You can turn off one pedal driving (which *mostly* turns off Regen on release of the accelerator). The result is the brake pedal introduces Regen and then blends in friction brakes. The downside to this system is that it results in a brake pedal that has absolutely zero feedback, and reacts rather unpredictably. That is an aspect of the mach e that customers REGULARLY complain about. The brake pedal dynamics are a huge pain point for the customers.

Tesla and Rivian on the other hand have a more traditional brake pedal that is physically connected to the friction brakes. While you can introduce some regen with this system, the amount is limited due to the fact that the friction brakes are immediately engaged. The result of this system is a brake feel that is much more predictable and controlable.

I currently own a Tesla and a Mach E, with an R1T on order. I drive both of them in one pedal mode, so it doesn't make a huge difference, but when it does come to using the brake pedal I much prefer the tesla. It is so much more predictable and controllable.

As a side note - Regen is HUGELY important for an EV's efficiency and range in city driving. Eliminating Regen would KILL range in the City. I personally prefer one pedal driving, because that way I can make sure I'm taking advantage of as much region as possible. In situations where I need more aggressive breaking and have to use the pedal, there's a physical separation where I can choose to give up regen where needed.

Personally in my time in R1 I actually prefer the high Regen mode. One pedal certainly takes some getting used to. And changing some habits. Such as putting your foot lightly on the accelerator before disengaging Cruise. But as far as driving Dynamics with regen, I wouldn't trade it

Our Ford Lightning brake pedal (when one pedal mode is turned off) acts identically to any traditional brake pedal in any ICE vehicle. And the regen efficiency is identical to the regen in one pedal mode as long as you don't mash the brake pedal. There is even an efficiency "coach" on the dash that tells you exactly how much of the braking energy was actually sent back to the battery. In 99% of my braking, 100% goes back to the battery. And yes I understand 100% doesn't mean 100% regen efficiency as there are significant losses when an electric motor turns into a generator to charge a battery and then discharge the battery to once again power the motor. Coasting is far more efficient than constantly repeating this round trip loss of efficiency.

Maybe the Mach E operates under different parameters but the Lightning truly offers both one pedal and standard driving modes. It truly is the best of both worlds. Rivian unfortunately missed this. My Rivian also uses 50% more electricity on the exact same driving routes as my Lightning. 2.8 miles per kWh vs 1.9 in my R1S. I can only assume much of this efficiency loss is due to the inefficiency of the regen system because 50% is an absolutely staggering energy consumption delta for two vehicles that are both similar in weight, drag coefficient and size. In fact the Lighting is actually significantly larger... by almost 3 feet. 90% of my driving is city driving.

 

[DD4ST]

As the one who started this thread, I can attest to what DucRider said. I already own an Audi eTron and the with regen braking is seamless with no issues related to regen what-so-ever. If I want to use regen without the brake I can also do so manually with steering mounted paddles but am not forced to in all cases. Perhaps some of this will bleed over with Rivian’s new joint venture with VW. With the Rivian I am forced to keep my foot at a specific spot to maintain speed. I can’t even stretch my ankle without affecting the ride. This makes for a tiring drive experience. I am willing to have less efficiency for drive comfort when I want it. We all like to think we are doing good by being most efficient but at the end of the day it is about enjoying the vehicle.

 

[brancky3]

As the one who started this thread, I can attest to what DucRider said. I already own an Audi eTron and the with regen braking is seamless with no issues related to regen what-so-ever. If I want to use regen without the brake I can also do so manually with steering mounted paddles but am not forced to in all cases. Perhaps some of this will bleed over with Rivian’s new joint venture with VW. With the Rivian I am forced to keep my foot at a specific spot to maintain speed. I can’t even stretch my ankle without affecting the ride. This makes for a tiring drive experience. I am willing to have less efficiency for drive comfort when I want it. We all like to think we are doing good by being most efficient but at the end of the day it is about enjoying the vehicle.

I have a feeling Rivian will never do this because it will kill their EPA efficiency ratings.

 

[SparkyR1t]

Other than on snow and ice when you do not want braking automatically applied to slow down I can’t imagine a vehicle without regen in my future. Can’t even turn it off or lower it on new Model Y at least Rivian allows three levels of regen that are driver controllable

 

[SwampNut]

True fact - less regen gives better efficiency on the highway. Regen inherently introduces losses with the inverter, wiring, etc. So on the highway with only minor speed changes the benefit of Regen doesn't overcome the losses of using it (but we're talking like 5% or less of a difference in efficiency by my reckoning. It's very minor)

Just because the car is set to full regen doesn't mean that you USE it on the highway. There's no loss from using regen to slow as much as needed. It's obviously far better than using the brakes which are 100% loss. So maybe you mean that if you improperly use braking, there's a loss. Absolutely no loss from having the POTENTIAL of max regen.

The ridiculous skeuomorphs above are a big part of why we decided against Ford and for Rivian. It's just dumb to have these old-think functions based purely on what limitations vehicles had 100 years ago. Get rid of anything that isn't intrinsically and physically part of a modern vehicle's needs.

 

[beatle]

I have a feeling Rivian will never do this because it will kill their EPA efficiency ratings.

Pretty sure that's why Rivians never had "creep" mode that mimics the behavior of a standard automatic transmission, allowing the vehicle to "creep" forward slowly when you release the brake. Tesla used to have this feature and then removed it to bolster their EPA ratings. I am a huge advocate of one pedal driving, but I also appreciate that some people would prefer the behavior of their old automatic. We could technically both have our cake and eat it too.

 

[DucRider]

I have a feeling Rivian will never do this because it will kill their EPA efficiency ratings.

There is exactly zero difference in efficiency by mapping regen to the left pedal instead of the right one.

Without a blended brake system, a lower regen setting will absolutely impact efficiency as the EPA test cycles will then involve/increase the use of the friction brakes (this is why Tesla recently eliminated the ability to adjust regen).

Sponsored