Battery Pack Sizes: How did the efficiency between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 change so much?

[CharonPDX]

330/109.4 = 3. 02 mi/kWh.

My Mach-e GT: 270/91 = 2.97 mi/kWh.

Somehow the R1 is more efficient than my much smaller and more aerodynamic Mach-e. Amazing!

I also think this seems a little too good to be true.

The Tesla Semi is *SIGNIFICANTLY* more efficient towing an 80,000 pound trailer than a Cybertruck is towing a 10,000 pound trailer.

Hell, a Tesla Semi towing an 80,000 pound trailer is about the same efficiency as my R1T towing my 4000 pound trailer.

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[FordRanger89]

The Tesla Semi is *SIGNIFICANTLY* more efficient towing an 80,000 pound trailer than a Cybertruck is towing a 10,000 pound trailer.

Hell, a Tesla Semi towing an 80,000 pound trailer is about the same efficiency as my R1T towing my 4000 pound trailer.

But the Semi didn't get significantly more efficient after a refresh without significantly changing something....

With the refresh we got slight hardware changes to the dual motor drive unit clutch, a 50lb reduction in wire weight, and more efficient tires. Is that enough to make it significantly more efficient than gen 1?
I don't think so, and I think that was his point in comparing it to the Mach-e.

 

[CharonPDX]

But the Semi didn't get significantly more efficient after a refresh without significantly changing something....

With the refresh we got slight hardware changes to the dual motor drive unit clutch, a 50lb reduction in wire weight, and more efficient tires. Is that enough to make it significantly more efficient than gen 1?
I don't think so, and I think that was his point in comparing it to the Mach-e.

Yes. Tires can make a huge difference. And Mach-E is notoriously inefficient for its size/shape. (I have one, it regularly fails to achieve even the low-advertised efficiency.)

My point was that it's quite possible for a much larger/less aerodynamic vehicle to be as efficient as a smaller/more aerodynamic one if the powertrain is well optimized - and Rivian seems to have done some extreme improvements to optimize the powertrain.

Some dual motor owners were able to regularly get 2.5 mi/kWh on the Gen 1. With the improvements to Gen 2, even without an actual motor refresh (which may have also happened!) an improvement to 2.9-3.0 seems perfectly feasible.

 

[HaveBlue]

Keep in mind that Gen 1 cars have terrible vampire drain and this affects the over all efficiency whether it is parked or driving. Losing 1kwh per day (30 per month is a loss of 60-75 miles of range per month.)

Tom M state of charge has one of the best interviews I've heard on the Gen 2.

 

[FordRanger89]

Yes. Tires can make a huge difference. And Mach-E is notoriously inefficient for its size/shape. (I have one, it regularly fails to achieve even the low-advertised efficiency.)

My point was that it's quite possible for a much larger/less aerodynamic vehicle to be as efficient as a smaller/more aerodynamic one if the powertrain is well optimized - and Rivian seems to have done some extreme improvements to optimize the powertrain.

Some dual motor owners were able to regularly get 2.5 mi/kWh on the Gen 1. With the improvements to Gen 2, even without an actual motor refresh (which may have also happened!) an improvement to 2.9-3.0 seems perfectly feasible.

Do you think the type of tire makes more of a difference on ICEs or EVs?
Probably EVs?
I have owned a Mach-e and Bolt but haven't had to change there tires out yet.
I just hate the idea of having to continue buying a specific tire in order to get the estimated range.

 

[jjswan33]

Do you think the type of tire makes more of a difference on ICEs or EVs?
Probably EVs?
I have owned a Mach-e and Bolt but haven't had to change there tires out yet.
I just hate the idea of having to continue buying a specific tire in order to get the estimated range.

The efficiency of a tire has nothing to do with how it's propelled.

 

[FordRanger89]

Keep in mind that Gen 1 cars have terrible vampire drain and this affects the over all efficiency whether it is parked or driving. Losing 1kwh per day (30 per month is a loss of 60-75 miles of range per month.)

Tom M state of charge has one of the best interviews I've heard on the Gen 2.

Definitely a big problem in the first generation rigs. Glad they did something about it!

It's funny, I have probably watched every single refresh video on YouTube and everytime the topic of the large battery pack or tires come up, the engineer being interviewed never gives specifics.

I understand no specifics on the Large pack because they haven't released that information yet, but why can't they comment on just how much more efficient their new tires are? Ha
Has anyone actually heard numbers?

 

[FordRanger89]

The efficiency of a tire has nothing to do with how it's propelled.

I guess that's kinda what I am getting at. Out of all of the tires I have ever bought, I have never noticed efficiency changes/improvement in milage because I have never payed much attention to it or it wasn't a significant change. There is a gas station every ten miles and it only takes 2 minutes to fill up.

There is a stretch of road we drive in Oregon that our long range mach-e has trouble making it the whole way. No chargers, (although coming soon) but even if there was it would be a bummer having to stop.

So if I don't buy the right tires next time I might not make it.

I guess that's why we decided on the max for our r1s pack. I don't want to worry about battery degradation and having to buy specific tires.

 

[HaveBlue]

I guess that's kinda what I am getting at. Out of all of the tires I have ever bought, I have never noticed efficiency changes/improvement in milage because I have never payed much attention to it or it wasn't a significant change. There is a gas station every ten miles and it only takes 2 minutes to fill up.

There is a stretch of road we drive in Oregon that our long range mach-e has trouble making it the whole way. No chargers, (although coming soon) but even if there was it would be a bummer having to stop.

So if I don't buy the right tires next time I might not make it.

I guess that's why we decided on the max for our r1s pack. I don't want to worry about battery degradation and having to buy specific tires.

I don't think you'll regret the Max pack. When you're spending this much, might as well go all the way if you can. I've done so many trips where I get back home with 50miles or whatever of range and say to myself, "I'd have to have fast charged somewhere just to be safe." Typically going from north LA to San Diego proper and back while driving around down there all on one charge before I left home. It's like driving our 400+ range Audi version of an EV there and not thinking much about gas. I bought it because I tow and it was all that was in the shop at the time but I can't argue having it now.

 

[FordRanger89]

I don't think you'll regret the Max pack. When you're spending this much, might as well go all the way if you can. I've done so many trips where I get back home with 50miles or whatever of range and say to myself, "I'd have to have fast charged somewhere just to be safe." Typically going from north LA to San Diego proper and back while driving around down there all on one charge before I left home. It's like driving our 400+ range Audi version of an EV there and not thinking much about gas. I bought it because I tow and it was all that was in the shop at the time but I can't argue having it now.

That's good to hear. Thanks for the information!
My wife said the same thing, " Well we are already spending this much money. We should get the max pack." Ha
It said September-August estimated build date. We will see what happens.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

For us, it made sense to buy the 143.3 kWh MaxPack (even at inflated prices) for our first Rivian.

We're fine with the 132.1 kWh Large Pack on our second Rivian.

MaxPack qdvantages include both time efficiency and peace of mind.

Disadvantages include cost, and not much else.

***

If your wife will be happier with the MaxPack, and you can afford it, that may be God talking....

Very best wishes, @FordRanger89! Enjoy your Rivian!

 

[DuoRivian]

Keep in mind that Gen 1 cars have terrible vampire drain and this affects the over all efficiency whether it is parked or driving. Losing 1kwh per day (30 per month is a loss of 60-75 miles of range per month.)

Tom M state of charge has one of the best interviews I've heard on the Gen 2.

Vampire drain is not going affect your miles per kWh if you do a reasonable number of miles per day.

 

[CharonPDX]

Do you think the type of tire makes more of a difference on ICEs or EVs?
Probably EVs?
I have owned a Mach-e and Bolt but haven't had to change there tires out yet.
I just hate the idea of having to continue buying a specific tire in order to get the estimated range.

Range difference is range difference, regardless of propulsion technology. It's just that EVs tend to be sold with more efficient tires. Rivian's 20" AT tires are off-road tires that are far less efficient than standard road tires, so the current Rivians equipped with "not specifically meant to be efficient" tires do far worse than a meant-to-be-efficient tire.

But you can get efficient tires in a variety of styles. There are even snow-capable efficient tires now.

 

[HaveBlue]

Vampire drain is not going affect your miles per kWh if you do a reasonable number of miles per day.

If I drive 380 with a max pack in a day, my efficiency is 2.69. if I drive 380 miles in a month, I will lose at least 60 miles of range due to vampire drain 1kwh/day. This means I will only be able to go 320 miles of distance which is 2.27. Guess what my lifetime actual average is!!!

Rivian is essentially lying to us about the efficiency. They are using a loophole in the EPA testing because no car with a leaky gasoline tank is allowed on public roads. It's not something the EPA fathomed.

 

[Guy]

If I drive 380 with a max pack in a day, my efficiency is 2.69. if I drive 380 miles in a month, I will lose at least 60 miles of range due to vampire drain 1kwh/day. This means I will only be able to go 320 miles of distance which is 2.27. Guess what my lifetime actual average is!!!

Rivian is essentially lying to us about the efficiency. They are using a loophole in the EPA testing because no car with a leaky gasoline tank is allowed on public roads. It's not something the EPA fathomed.

If you do low mileage then yes vampire drain will have a small impact but typical mileage of 1000 miles a month will not be significantly affected. It does not explain the 16+% increase in efficiency observed

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