Battery Pack Sizes: How did the efficiency between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 change so much?

[FordRanger89]

I forget which (maybe OOS), but in one of the videos on Gen 2 there was mention that the new 22’s were lighter. But yeah, all speculation at this point. Will be curious what you can learn tomorrow and to see efficiency tests once there are more deliveries.

Yes for sure.
I would also like to see an efficiency test.

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[FordRanger89]

I am in the market for the same and skeptical about the range protection of large pack. If they were able to magically squeeze our 3+ miles/kWh on the large pack, how come the max pack is still at 141 kWH, they didn’t make it smaller say 135kWH ? Afraid of Tesla “miles”. - vapourware.

Exactly! There is also the same discrepancies between the small and large pack.... The difference in battery pack size does not come close to matching the estimated range differences....

 

[HaveBlue]

The Enduros are revised with pressurized oil lubrication instead of oil bath. The Bosch ones were water jacket cooled. Might be a generous reduction in friction as they spin at many thousands of rpm.

 

[Eric9610]

Still does not make sense that the stock 22" brights get more range in Gen 2 then in Gen 1. In Gen 1 22's gave you a 20mile range penalty. So in reality its more than 3m/kw.

Just saying something does not add up. Changing the motors does not increase range by 40% + ... Something smells off...most people on the G1 get about 2.25-2.4 m/kw.

 

[Miketz]

Still does not make sense that the stock 22" brights get more range in Gen 2 then in Gen 1. In Gen 1 22's gave you a 20mile range penalty. So in reality its more than 3m/kw.

Just saying something does not add up. Changing the motors does not increase range by 40% + ... Something smells off...most people on the G1 get about 2.25-2.4 m/kw.

I very much doubt Rivian can increase the Siemens Motor efficiency by 1 or 2% overall. As an owner of a T and now an S the best numbers I have seen are around 2.4miles/kWh on a cool day in South Florida.

 

[usofrob]

The MPGe for the 2025 R1S Max 22" is 91/77 (from the latest EPA document)
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Max 21" is 89/76 (known to be a bit optimistic)
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Max 22" is 84/72
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Large 21" is 82/74
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Large 22" is 80/71

It does seem like Pirelli's new 22" tire is more efficient, and likely has at least the same efficiency as the gen1 21" tires. They're like 10 years newer and purpose built for EV's (At least Rivian and Tesla). So, I'd expect good things. It's also possible that the gen1 vehicles with 22" wheels may gain appreciable range from the previous generation tires.

What I see is that the city driving is a large increase, and the highway is a little increase. So, the increased city efficiency helps with the average EPA number, but doesn't help the freeway range much. So, I'd expect gen2 to get more range than gen1 on the freeway, but not much. However, I would expect driving around town to gain appreciable efficiency.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Pow...aseModel=R1S&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50

 

[DuoRivian]

The MPGe for the 2025 R1S Max 22" is 91/77 (from the latest EPA document)
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Max 21" is 89/76 (known to be a bit optimistic)
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Max 22" is 84/72
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Large 21" is 82/74
The MPGe for the 2024 R1S Large 22" is 80/71

It does seem like Pirelli's new 22" tire is more efficient, and likely has at least the same efficiency as the gen1 21" tires. They're like 10 years newer and purpose built for EV's (At least Rivian and Tesla). So, I'd expect good things. It's also possible that the gen1 vehicles with 22" wheels may gain appreciable range from the previous generation tires.

What I see is that the city driving is a large increase, and the highway is a little increase. So, the increased city efficiency helps with the average EPA number, but doesn't help the freeway range much. So, I'd expect gen2 to get more range than gen1 on the freeway, but not much. However, I would expect driving around town to gain appreciable efficiency.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Pow...aseModel=R1S&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50

I agree there could be some efficiency gain but the issue is the large battery is c.20% smaller yet the range is comparable. That is a lot of efficiency gains to make up the range with.

 

[Nacho Rivian]

Hello all,

I am concerned about my recent R1S dual motor large pack order. How does the large pack get me 330 miles of range when the pack is only 109.4kwh. How did the efficiency between the gen 1 rigs and gen 2 rigs change so much? The large pack in the gen 2 rigs is significantly smaller than the pack in gen 1 rigs but only lost about 10 miles of range (based on the 22" wheel size)? Is the gen 2 R1S really getting 3m/kwh or am I going to find out on my first drive that I won't be getting anywhere near that kind of range. I would be frustrated to say the least....
Also, the math between the small and large pack doesn't add up. The difference in pack size is about 16.9kwr right? How does that difference get me another 70miles....

I know they added the heat pump but that should only really make a difference in winter right?

I attached pictures of the battery pack sizes for the first and second gen rigs.

Can someone make sense of this for me?

Less battery weight and heat pump and more efficient power management…

 

[usofrob]

I agree there could be some efficiency gain but the issue is the large battery is c.20% smaller yet the range is comparable. That is a lot of efficiency gains to make up the range with.

I agree. If you notice, they're reporting the same 330 mile range for R1S and R1T, but for the max, they show the R1T at 420 vs 410 of R1S. If the Standard, Large and Max all have about the same efficiency of 2.9 mi/kwh, then I suspect the range is actually 320.

352*109.4/131 = 294 miles
320/294 = 1.09 = 9% increase in range

So, does a 9% range increase seem reasonable given the more efficient tires and more efficient electronics for an average of "highway" and "city"? Maybe

 

[FordRanger89]

Less battery weight and heat pump and more efficient power management…

Yeah I think that could help a little, but the LFP small pack is less energy dense so it probably weighs just as much as the large pack. So why is there such a difference between those two? Also, even if they took a couple modules out of the large pack so it weighs less than the max pack, I don't think it would make that big of a difference. That's got to be less than 200lbs.... I have heard so many people talk about aerodynamics being the most important thing. I couldn't imagine adding or removing the weight of one person to your car would make you lose so many miles of range.
Kyle from OOS talked about that, and he said you would only lose a couple miles of range by adding a person to your car.

I am sure the heat pump makes a big difference during winter months but then why do we have such a big difference between pack sizes still?

 

[FordRanger89]

So I called and talked to several different people at Rivian today. Everyone understands my worries but couldn't really give me an explanation.
They put me down on lists to get calls beck from:
•The service center in Portland, OR (I live in Oregon). I was hoping to talk with a tech to see what the average miles/kwh they have been seeing on the second gen R1s.
•Someone in sales. I want to see if I can change to the max pack without losing my 1k deposit.
•I was told by the customer service guy that they were going to send my questions to an engineer/technician. "The guys that build and test them. Maybe they can give us some more information as to how they expect the efficiency to improve so much."

We will see if I ever get a call back from anyone. I am not holding my breath about getting more information on efficiency but if I could keep my order and possible change to a max pack that might be something I do. That would also be cool if I get a call back from a local service tech to see what efficiency they have been seeing in the new second gen rigs.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Golfer04]

So I called and talked to several different people at Rivian today. Everyone understands my worries but couldn't really give me an explanation.
They put me down on lists to get calls beck from:
•The service center in Portland, OR (I live in Oregon). I was hoping to talk with a tech to see what the average miles/kwh they have been seeing on the second gen R1s.
•Someone in sales. I want to see if I can change to the max pack without losing my 1k deposit.
•I was told by the customer service guy that they were going to send my questions to an engineer/technician. "The guys that build and test them. Maybe they can give us some more information as to how they expect the efficiency to improve so much."

We will see if I ever get a call back from anyone. I am not holding my breath about getting more information on efficiency but if I could keep my order and possible change to a max pack that might be something I do. That would also be cool if I get a call back from a local service tech to see what efficiency they have been seeing in the new second gen rigs.

Fingers crossed.

They told Kyle Connor (who now has a gen 1 2024 dual S for testing) that it made no difference which gen he had as far as efficiency. He is preparing for another EV race. I want to see independent testing before I believe these small packs get the same range. I'm in Central Illinois and in January on stock 20s I only got 1.6mi/kw on the highway. Some of that is the tires, but imagine if you only have 100kw battery. I'm on my 2nd T and they both got that in cold weather.

 

[FordRanger89]

That's what I am afraid of....
I don't know how they cam advertise these ranges....

 

[Davethadog]

Less battery weight and heat pump and more efficient power management…

There’s not 20% there in one generational change.

 

[mkhuffman]

I agree with the concerns that everyone has about the range estimates. It's similar to the concern I had when the max pack was first released. As I have pointed out before, the max pack seem to be much more efficient than any other Gen 1 model. It doesn't make sense.

I think one of the things that is happening with the Gen 2 is all of the 22" range estimates are being done with the 22 inch Aero wheels. They definitely give the best range, and maybe even slightly better than the previous 21 in wheels. So I think part of the difference people are seeing is due to the Aero wheels. I do not think the bright 22s have better range in gen 2. Maybe slightly, but not enough to explain the difference they are publishing.

I think they are not delineating between the wheels properly in the configurator. When you change from the Areo 22s to the non Areo 22s, the range should go down. Without a doubt. It doesn't.

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