Interesting interview with Ford CEO about how switch to NACS went down -- worth a listen

[beyondgravity]

tldw?

It looks like generative AI (I assume) did a good summary above.

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[Riviot]

It looks like generative AI (I assume) did a good summary above.

Summary? I'm still reading it. That's like voice to text.

 

[GreenOptimist]

Intro (00:00:00)

• Ford CEO Jim Farley announced Ford's transition from the J1772 and CCS1 plugs to Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) or J3400 connector.
• This allows Ford vehicles access to Tesla's extensive Supercharger network.
• Ford customers can now charge their F-150 Lightning at Tesla Superchargers using an adapter provided by Ford.
• An exclusive interview with Jim Farley will discuss charge port location, data sharing, and how he convinced Elon Musk to allow Ford access to Tesla Superchargers.

Background information on the topic (00:01:37)

• After Ford's announcement, other major OEMs followed suit, planning to install NACS inlets on their electric vehicles starting in 2025.
• Some manufacturers will phase in the transition, with Ford beginning to include NACS ports as the native port on their vehicles from 2025 onwards.
• Until 2025, these companies will rely on adapters to access Tesla Superchargers, with Tesla and third parties manufacturing these adapters.
• Ford is currently the only company allowed to access the Tesla Supercharger network, with Rivian, General Motors, Volvo, and Polestar likely to follow.
• All companies will need to use adapters until their vehicles come with the native NACS port, which will start from 2025.

I ask Jim what led to the decision to switch to Tesla's connector (00:04:03)

• Ford CEO Jim Farley decided to adopt the NACS (J3400) connector for EV charging after realizing the convenience of Tesla's Supercharger Network during a family vacation.
• Data showed that third-party charging sites had a 70% first-time connect rate, while Tesla's internal target was around 98-99%.
• Farley contacted Elon Musk, emphasizing Ford's position as the second-largest player in the EV market and their willingness to switch formats if Tesla provided access with an adapter in the interim.
• Musk agreed, and the contract was completed in a record two weeks.
• The transition involved significant effort in ensuring the technology, software, and adapter's functionality, as well as scaling up production.
• Farley believes that more engineers and people in the field should experience the challenges of EV charging firsthand to better understand customer needs.
• Farley trusts Doug Fields, Ford's Chief EV and Digital Officer, and values his technical expertise in making decisions about EV charging infrastructure.

Did any other CEO call Jim to complain? (00:10:48)

• Jim Farley expected criticism from other brands after Ford's announcement to switch to the NACS (J3400) connector.
• No other CEOs called Jim to complain, but he was not surprised when other companies followed Ford's decision.
• Farley emphasizes the importance of being on the right side of customers in the automotive industry.

Will Ford relocate the charge port locations to accommodate Superchargers? (00:12:00)

• The current charge port location on the Ford F150 Lightning makes it difficult to reach the cable, especially for Superchargers with longer cables.
• Ford is considering relocating the charge port location on future vehicles as part of the switch to the NACS standard.
• The decision to switch standards will involve a comprehensive review of various factors, including the performance and reliability of the NACS connector.
• Farley highlights that the bigger change will be the switch to the NACS standard, which will include a relook at the charge port location.

What will be the first Ford EV to have a native NACS inlet? (00:14:34)

• Jim Farley cannot disclose the specific vehicle that will be the first Ford EV to have a native NACS inlet.
• He hints that it will be one of their next-generation products.
• Farley expresses excitement about the upcoming next-generation products and believes they will surprise people.
• He does not want to give competitors any advance notice about their plans.

Why is Ford giving away the NACS adapter for free? (00:16:09)

• Ford CEO Jim Farley initially stated that the NACS adapter would be free, causing confusion within the company.
• There was a debate within Ford about whether to charge for the adapter, with some arguing that many customers would not use it and it would be a waste.
• Farley believed that providing the adapter for free would be a loyalty investment, as satisfied customers are more likely to purchase another Ford EV in the future.
• Farley felt it would be strange to charge a small amount for the adapter when Ford is emphasizing its commitment to improving its vehicles through software updates and other enhancements.
• The decision to provide the adapter for free was met with positive feedback from the EV community and put pressure on Ford's competitors.
• Ford put a lot of effort into the packaging and messaging of the adapter, considering it a mini product launch.
• Farley appreciated the positive response from customers and expressed gratitude to those who purchased a Ford EV.

I asked Jim if he thinks the future transition to NACS is hurting EV sales today (00:20:50)

• Farley believes affordability is the main reason for the slowdown in EV sales, not the transition to NACS.
• The prices of EVs need to come down to attract more buyers.
• Hybrid vehicles are still being considered by many buyers due to their lower price point and familiarity.
• Buyers are not fully understanding the benefits of EVs, such as acceleration and not having to visit gas stations.

Does Tesla get Ford customer data when they use Superchargers? (00:22:50)

• Tesla does not share Ford customer data when they use Superchargers.
• Customer data stays within Ford unless the customer uses the Tesla charging app.
• Farley would not have agreed to the deal if Tesla had access to Ford customer data.

Jim's final thoughts (00:24:21)

• Farley feels privileged to work at Ford and be in a position to make the right decisions.
• He is grateful for the support of Chairman Bill Ford and people like Doug Fields who encourage him to make tough decisions.
• Farley believes that providing customers with a better charging experience is a no-brainer and that Tesla deserves credit for their hard work.
• He acknowledges that there is still work to be done, such as updating software and the supercharging network.
• Farley sees the switch to the NACS connector as a positive change for the industry.

Summary (00:25:57)

• Ford CEO Jim Farley decided to adopt the NACS (J3400) connector for EV charging in North America after experiencing difficulties during a road trip with his family.
• Farley's decision was influenced by customer complaints about unreliable charging experiences and the desire to improve customer satisfaction.
• Ford will provide a free adapter to customers who want to use the Tesla Supercharger network, but Tesla will not receive any Ford customer data if authentication is done through the Ford Pass app.
• The decision by Ford triggered a domino effect in the industry, with other automakers following suit and agreeing to adopt the NACS connector.
• All new electric vehicles sold in North America will have the NACS (J3400) connector by the end of this decade.

Outro (00:30:57)

• Encouragement to subscribe to the channel and enable notifications to stay updated on electric vehicle news and reviews.
• Expression of gratitude from the speaker for the viewer's time and attention.

tldr?

 

[R1Thor]

The A2Z adapters have been proven to work with Fords.

Working currently ≠ working indefinitely.
If they haven't enabled the software lockout yet, but do in the future... then what?

That said, maybe it's all just scare tactics. Time will tell!

 

[moosetags]

I watched the whole interview and I'm glad that I did. I gained some insight on how this EV transition has to operate if it is to eventually become the standard for personal transportation. It was well worth listening to the whole thing.

Brian

 

[emoore]

Working currently ≠ working indefinitely.
If they haven't enabled the software lockout yet, but do in the future... then what?

That said, maybe it's all just scare tactics. Time will tell!

Not sure how the adapters can get locked out by software. I think all of the adapters are pretty dumb so the car or charger doesn’t know if it’s a Rivian adapter or 3rd party one.

 

[R1Thor]

Not sure how the adapters can get locked out by software. I think all of the adapters are pretty dumb so the car or charger doesn’t know if it’s a Rivian adapter or 3rd party one.

I believe you missed this comment:

at 8:59. "the software has to validate the adapter is a legit adapter"

If that is the case and the adapters have validation circuitry in them and aren't just a hunk of plastic with 5 wires that is going to be bad news for the people who ordered those un-tested 3rd party adapters hoping to avoid the wait for the official adapter.

There could be some very expensive paperweights making their way through the postal system right now.

For those who ordered a 3rd party adapter, did they promise to refund you if it turns out that their adapters don't work?

The idea that there's a 'handshake' mechanism is an inference based on what Ford's CEO said. It's yet to be seen one way or another. Maybe someone will do a teardown of an 'official' adapter at some point. Until then (and/or until we see all adapters working, or certain adapters 'locked out'), it's all speculation!

 

[scottf200]

Will Ford relocate the charge port locations to accommodate Superchargers? (00:12:00)

• The current charge port location on the Ford F150 Lightning makes it difficult to reach the cable, especially for Superchargers with longer cables.
• Ford is considering relocating the charge port location on future vehicles as part of the switch to the NACS standard.
• The decision to switch standards will involve a comprehensive review of various factors, including the performance and reliability of the NACS connector.
• Farley highlights that the bigger change will be the switch to the NACS standard, which will include a relook at the charge port location.

a)
12:30ish - Will Ford relocate the charge port locations to accommodate Superchargers?
Tom M: change charge location on future Vehicles
Jim Farley: absolutely <----------------
Tom M : okay that was that was a quick answer
Jim F: and that will of course include a relook at our location

b)
Wes/Tesla: "This location will forever doom all Rivian owners to be the jerk taking two spots at a Tesla charger, don't do that to your customers."

 

[emoore]

I believe you missed this comment:



The idea that there's a 'handshake' mechanism is an inference based on what Ford's CEO said. It's yet to be seen one way or another. Maybe someone will do a teardown of an 'official' adapter at some point. Until then (and/or until we see all adapters working, or certain adapters 'locked out'), it's all speculation!

I don’t believe what he said. Guess we will see once someone tears one apart

 

[R1Thor]

b)
Wes/Tesla: "This location will forever doom all Rivian owners to be the jerk taking two spots at a Tesla charger, don't do that to your customers."

One could argue (OK, I am making the argument) that it's incumbent upon ALL parties to be as accommodating as possible.

One party saying "no, you HAVE to do it exactly the way I want you to" is ..well.. a jackass move.

In my unsolicited opinion, Tesla is already 'getting their way' insofar as the world is 'adopting' their standard. If they're concerned about congestion at their superchargers, they should build them heretofore to accommodate the maximum use cases (optimize the spaces, the size of the spaces, the distances from the chargers, and the cables themselves to 'reach.')

Is that reasonable? Time will tell, but we're at the very beginning of this era of locomotion. A decade from now, the landscape will look verily different from today. Does that mean everything will be standardized? Doubtful, but does it mean that it'll likely be very flexible? Probably--if there's one thing we humans like to do, it's innovate!

 

[SANZC02]

at 8:59. "the software has to validate the adapter is a legit adapter"

If that is the case and the adapters have validation circuitry in them and aren't just a hunk of plastic with 5 wires that is going to be bad news for the people who ordered those un-tested 3rd party adapters hoping to avoid the wait for the official adapter.

There could be some very expensive paperweights making their way through the postal system right now.

For those who ordered a 3rd party adapter, did they promise to refund you if it turns out that their adapters don't work?

The adapter is $197 to my door, it is not like it is a crazy amount of money. The company that sells it is reputable so I’m not overly concerned about getting one. I spent more than that on a set of roof racks that have yet to leave my garage once verified they work.

I picked one up just as an emergency, I do not use DCFC much so will rarely be used once I verify it works.

 

[scottf200]

In my unsolicited opinion, Tesla is already 'getting their way' insofar as the world is 'adopting' their standard. If they're concerned about congestion at their superchargers, they should build them heretofore to accommodate the maximum use cases (optimize the spaces, the size of the spaces, the distances from the chargers, and the cables themselves to 'reach.')

Is that reasonable? Time will tell, but we're at the very beginning of this era of locomotion. A decade from now, the landscape will look verily different from today. Does that mean everything will be standardized? Doubtful, but does it mean that it'll likely be very flexible? Probably--if there's one thing we humans like to do, it's innovate!

Preface -- just to be clear I am very excited for Rivian and their R2/R3/R3X future. I think it is a huge opportunity.

Real current and foreseeable time situation tho --- Keep in mind that there are 100s of v3 Tesla Superchargers going in weekly. Tesla is vastly outpacing others in this space. It will be a long time before there are many v4 superchargers going in. They will be friendly to rear-left and front-right.

Therefore having EV community-friendly charge port locations are pretty important to avoid conflicts and issues at Superchargers. Cars come and go at random based on arriving and departing SOC needs. You can put all one type on the right and all the other type on the left.

Ford and Jim F know this based on the what they stated. Rivian and their owners will have an idiom "black eye" (Tesla term: jerks) if they don't change the charger port location.

 

[COdogman]

Preface -- just to be clear I am very excited for Rivian and their R2/R3/R3X future. I think it is a huge opportunity.

Real current and foreseeable time situation tho --- Keep in mind that there are 100s of v3 Tesla Superchargers going in weekly. Tesla is vastly outpacing others in this space. It will be a long time before there are many v4 superchargers going in. They will be friendly to rear-left and front-right.

Therefore having EV community-friendly charge port locations are pretty important to avoid conflicts and issues at Superchargers. Cars come and go at random based on arriving and departing SOC needs. You can put all one type on the right and all the other type on the left.

Ford and Jim F know this based on the what they stated. Rivian and their owners will have an idiom "black eye" (Tesla term: jerks) if they don't change the charger port location.

You are making a pretty good case I should visit as many superchargers as possible with my wrongsided R1T

 

[Autolycus]

To all those saying Rivian owners will be called jerks: maybe just don’t contribute to the normalization of that term for Rivian owners? If you say Tesla needs to adapt, then that mindset is more likely to be normalized instead.

Also, Rivians are hardly going to be the only vehicles that need longer cables. From the photos I’ve seen, Cybertrucks will also potentially be a problem at chargers.

 

[SANZC02]

To all those saying Rivian owners will be called jerks: maybe just don’t contribute to the normalization of that term for Rivian owners? If you say Tesla needs to adapt, then that mindset is more likely to be normalized instead.

Also, Rivians are hardly going to be the only vehicles that need longer cables. From the photos I’ve seen, Cybertrucks will also potentially be a problem at chargers.

I had a Cyber Truck pull up beside me today at a Supercharger, seemed to have no issue getting the cable to reach. The proportions on the CT are just odd, I will say it looks better wrapped (not good but better) than in raw stainless.

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