MAX PACK Dual Motor Performance is delivering!

[mkhuffman]

Thanks for the response. I wonder why they would not equip Max battery with Quad-Motor. That could may be convince the justification for cost of the battery, with all extra drive modes and 1 yr. 10k miles warranty.

My question is why they gave up on the 180 kWh battery pack, which it appears they have done.

I think the answer to both is the same: supply and demand. If they price the trucks where they need to price them to make money, the demand will be too low. So they cut things out to keep the cost (and consequently price) down. They are a for profit business, and so far, they are losing a crap ton of money per vehicle sold. They need to fix that.

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[emoore]

My question is why they gave up on the 180 kWh battery pack, which it appears they have done.

I think the answer to both is the same: supply and demand. If they price the trucks where they need to price them to make money, the demand will be too low. So they cut things out to keep the cost (and consequently price) down. They are a for profit business, and so far, they are losing a crap ton of money per vehicle sold. They need to fix that.

They couldn't fit 180kwh so they had to drop it. Also they are still a startup and will have losses for awhile. It's not as simple as fixing losing money per vehicle. They needed to spend billions before they even sold their first truck.

 

[240vPlug]

Also they are still a startup and will have losses for awhile. It's not as simple as fixing losing money per vehicle. They needed to spend billions before they even sold their first truck.

This is true. Also, their quarterly updates show they are moving. In a positive direction on reducing LPV.

Speculation but here goes... Rivian wants to advertise a 400 mi range. The Silverado EV estimated at 450 mi range.

In looking at Munro hoist reviews, they left extra space in the T for a larger pack but there did not appear to be any extra in the S.

Going with the new chemistry allows them to use the same pack and cell design but with a different chemistry allowing for higher energy density (this is all speculation). It also allows them to put it in both vehicles. Its a higher margin option most likely and they need higher margins. The S is the more popular model.

There is a blurb on the Rivian website about a quad motor max pack coming in the future.

https://rivian.com/support/article/...Quad-Motor-AWD-Max-pack-R1T-from-configurator

Note: We plan to add a Quad-Motor with additional capability in the future that will pair with the Max pack. We will release pricing for this new variant closer to launch.

 

[emoore]

This is true. Also, their quarterly updates show they are moving. In a positive direction on reducing LPV.

Speculation but here goes... Rivian wants to advertise a 400 mi range. The Silverado EV estimated at 450 mi range.

In looking at Munro hoist reviews, they left extra space in the T for a larger pack but there did not appear to be any extra in the S.

Going with the new chemistry allows them to use the same pack and cell design but with a different chemistry allowing for higher energy density (this is all speculation). It also allows them to put it in both vehicles. Its a higher margin option most likely and they need higher margins. The S is the more popular model.

There is a blurb on the Rivian website about a quad motor max pack coming in the future.

https://rivian.com/support/article/...Quad-Motor-AWD-Max-pack-R1T-from-configurator

Note: We plan to add a Quad-Motor with additional capability in the future that will pair with the Max pack. We will release pricing for this new variant closer to launch.

Totally agree. 299 and 301 mile ranges look totally different to the casual consumer. Rivian needs their max pack range to start with a 4.

 

[mkhuffman]

They couldn't fit 180kwh so they had to drop it. Also they are still a startup and will have losses for awhile. It's not as simple as fixing losing money per vehicle. They needed to spend billions before they even sold their first truck.

I think the 180 pack will fit in the T but not the S with three rows of seats. So obviously it is more cost effective to put a smaller pack in, and one that will also fit in the S.

Originally they planned a max pack for the S but it required removal of the third row to fit. I think they decided the third row was too important and they could hit the 400 mile range claim with a smaller pack. And still sell it for what they planned to sell it for.

It does come down to cost and getting to the break even point as soon as possible. Their cash reserves are not bottomless.

 

[Supratachophobia]

My question is why they gave up on the 180 kWh battery pack, which it appears they have done.

I think the answer to both is the same: supply and demand. If they price the trucks where they need to price them to make money, the demand will be too low. So they cut things out to keep the cost (and consequently price) down. They are a for profit business, and so far, they are losing a crap ton of money per vehicle sold. They need to fix that.

It was purely a development cost problem. Much easier to put different cells in than to design/test/manufacturer a completely new part. Albeit the largest single part in the vehicle no less.


We'll see the quad/real max eventually in some supercar truck version. Basically the plaid version of a Rivian.

 

[Supratachophobia]

I think the 180 pack will fit in the T but not the S with three rows of seats. So obviously it is more cost effective to put a smaller pack in, and one that will also fit in the S.

Originally they planned a max pack for the S but it required removal of the third row to fit. I think they decided the third row was too important and they could hit the 400 mile range claim with a smaller pack. And still sell it for what they planned to sell it for.

It does come down to cost and getting to the break even point as soon as possible. Their cash reserves are not bottomless.

It required the removal of the third row footwell to be precise.

 

[CharonPDX]

Its not worth it. T best case an extra 58 miles range, S best case extra 48 miles. At current prices its a $10,000 upcharge. Towing range best case half that. Real world range increase likely much less than EPA numbers.

With all that said, its a personal decision. I just hate to see folks new to Rivian go for max pack and be disappointed.

I don't see anything from Rivian indicating this is anything more than a range increase so no other benefits to going with Max pack. I am still curious to see the real numbers. I wonder if Munro will do a tear down on max pack?

Yep. My only desire for Max over Large would be towing range. 50 miles ain't worth $10k. (And that's comparing to Large Quad on 20", obviously the difference is far less for Dual on 21")

 

[240vPlug]

We'll see the quad/real max eventually in some supercar truck version. Basically the plaid version of a Rivian.

This is interesting. Maybe the max pack will be capable of increased power output. There could also be a super offroad version of the trucks coming in the quad variety. Who knows what Rivian has in mind with the quad. We do know...based on their words ...the quad version with max pack will have "more capability"...but really these trucks are already super capable. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

[240vPlug]

I ran some numbers through ABRP. If the numbers are correct there may be a significant advantage for max pack on long road trips. See my posts here

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/my-opinion-on-max-pack-offering.19777/post-408493

 

[Wentworth]

If/when you lose access, would you report back?

I'm (slightly) surprised they want you (us!) to commit to the Max Pack, but still give you (us!) the opportunity to buy something else. That said, maybe they really don't sweat it until the production schedule is etched in Rivian's version of stone.

It would appear that I have lost access to the shop in the last 24 hours. I’m hoping that means I’m very close to delivery.

 

[ediehl]

Its not worth it. T best case an extra 58 miles range, S best case extra 48 miles. At current prices its a $10,000 upcharge. Towing range best case half that. Real world range increase likely much less than EPA numbers.

With all that said, its a personal decision. I just hate to see folks new to Rivian go for max pack and be disappointed.

I don't see anything from Rivian indicating this is anything more than a range increase so no other benefits to going with Max pack. I am still curious to see the real numbers. I wonder if Munro will do a tear down on max pack?

It's worth it to me. I'm paying an extra 7k since I ordered in 2019. That extra mileage will allow me to charge to 90% once a week rather than 100% and have similar range to the large pack. Also, living in SW Florida and having only EV's it gives me extra range in case the entire state evacuates like we did when Irma hit.
Also, I have been saving money since I put the deposit down so will have no interest payments and I'm grandfathered into the old tax rebate. If I had to get a loan I'd be paying 4.79% interest and I wouldn't qualify for the tax credit.

 

[SoCal Rob]

All this Max Pack talk got me wondering about how Tesla would approach this. I bet they could do better: make the cost difference $6,969 and give you 420 miles, but they may be a little high.

 

[obababoy]

It's worth it to me. I'm paying an extra 7k since I ordered in 2019. That extra mileage will allow me to charge to 90% once a week rather than 100% and have similar range to the large pack. Also, living in SW Florida and having only EV's it gives me extra range in case the entire state evacuates like we did when Irma hit.
Also, I have been saving money since I put the deposit down so will have no interest payments and I'm grandfathered into the old tax rebate. If I had to get a loan I'd be paying 4.79% interest and I wouldn't qualify for the tax credit.

Honestly for you (I was similar situation) it ISNT worth it financially compared to grabbing a launch edition quad in the store. I went from $86000 for my Blue 20"AT, dual/max, skidplate to 73500, for a launch green, ocean coast, free AT upgrade, skidplate, quad large. So over 12k difference for 50 miles was not worth the convenience even though I stuck with MAX pack until a month ago. SO happy I went with large. Im in Colorado as well but everyone has been pretty happy here with the range. Your Florida example does give a bit more piece of mind though so I hear ya there.

 

[240vPlug]

It's worth it to me. I'm paying an extra 7k since I ordered in 2019. That extra mileage will allow me to charge to 90% once a week rather than 100% and have similar range to the large pack. Also, living in SW Florida and having only EV's it gives me extra range in case the entire state evacuates like we did when Irma hit.
Also, I have been saving money since I put the deposit down so will have no interest payments and I'm grandfathered into the old tax rebate. If I had to get a loan I'd be paying 4.79% interest and I wouldn't qualify for the tax credit.

Sounds reasonable to me. makes sense.

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