GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[Longreach]

1. The details of the agreement aren't public. Why is that?

2 I fully expect that NACS will be published as a recognized standard - that would be the next logical step. That doesn't solve the problem.

3. Tesla is forecast to make billions of dollars in the coming years from agreements with OEMS for sharing their charging infrastructure. Why is that? Because OEMs aren't interested in participating in building out infrastructure. Tesla owns 100% of the NACS infrastructure and any 3rd party player that tries to get involved moving forward will be crushed. That's a monopoly.

OEMs not named Ford and Tesla, if they decide to move forward with a NACS standard, need to work together to build a competitive network to the Tesla network that will also qualify for NEVI funding so that there can be a true open market approach to national infrastructure.

For point 1, I think you are not considering the time element. The GM announcement caught everyone, external AND internal by surprise. It was a massive reversal known only to key senior people, so all the functionaries are now working to figure out the implications and will eventually communicate the details. Be patient.

For point 2, glad we agree on that. Because if it didn’t happen, all bets are off since standardization is the key enabler. Again, it will take some time to get the working level boffins moving.

Point 3 truly underestimates free market dynamics. The standard will be open and creative people will implement solutions that work. We are already seeing outlets subsidizing chargers to get people to stop by and spend money whilst they wait. Anybody who has been to a Buckees know all the profit comes from people buying “stuff” while refueling, not the gas. They love EVs because you have to hang around longer and therefore buy more “stuff”. There are many other models developing, and there will be competition just as there has been in selling gasoline (Buckees, Pilot, Flying J, Loves, Cefco, …).

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[scottf200]

Point 3 truly underestimates free market dynamics. The standard will be open and creative people will implement solutions that work. We are already seeing outlets subsidizing chargers to get people to stop by and spend money whilst they wait. Anybody who has been to a Buckees know all the profit comes from people buying “stuff” while refueling, not the gas. They love EVs because you have to hang around longer and therefore buy more “stuff”. There are many other models developing, and there will be competition just as there has been in selling gasoline (Buckees, Pilot, Flying J, Loves, Cefco, …).

Very recent Buc-ee’s in Tennessee with prefab installs.

 

[RWerksman]

Tesla has said they intend to transfer to an independent organization.

Musk does what he says. You may not like it but he does follow through.

Oi vey.

 

[Gene]

I do hope Rivian joins the Tesla Superchargers. I've been driving Teslas since 2012 and the Superchargers are fabulous! I am waiting on a dual motor but will definitely cancel if Rivian states that they are not joining. And. of course if Rivian joins in, that will make me and a lot of people really happy! I've crossed the country too many times in a Tesla and I know how liberating the Superchargers are.

 

[Rjalbright3]

Add me to the list of people who will delay delivery until Rivian makes a decision on NACS. At this point they would be silly not to.

 

[scottf200]

CharIn

Assoc. / Standards Org.

06/12/2023

TBD

Source

"CharIN will work to convene an open task force to align requirements with the goal of submitting NACS to the standardization process."

 

[EVSport7]

Interested in a second generation R1S or R2 platform for my wife when the time comes for a new vehicle (~5 years). Without NACS and SC access, I would rather look at other models

 

[scottf200]

RE: existing
Suspect they will replacing some CCS connectors/cord with NACS.

https://www.evgo.com/press-release/evgo-announces-plans-to-expand-nacs-deployments/

June 12, 2023

– EVgo Inc. (NASDAQ: EVGO) (“EVgo” or the “Company”), one of the nation’s largest public fast charging networks for electric vehicles (EVs), today announced that the company will be adding North American Charging Standard (NACS) connectors to its fast charging network across the country following the recent announcements by Ford and General Motors (GM) that they will be leveraging NACS starting some time in 2025.

"EVgo first deployed integrated Tesla connectors in 2020, and with the recently announced expansion of the number of automakers using the NACS connector, we are excited to announce that we will also be integrating NACS connectors on the EVgo network in future deployments as well as on some existing chargers,” said Cathy Zoi, CEO of EVgo.

 

[zefram47]

RE: existing
Suspect they will replacing some CCS connectors/cord with NACS.

https://www.evgo.com/press-release/evgo-announces-plans-to-expand-nacs-deployments/

June 12, 2023

Literally nothing in that statement says they'd replace CCS. EVGo's current Tesla plug solution is based on the CHAdeMO adapter and very limited in capability. If anything, those will go away in favor of full-power NACS cables alongside CCS. There's almost zero chance you'll see a third-party charge point operator deploy equipment with only NACS for probably the next decade. If charging already isn't profitable there'd be no reason for them to artificially decrease their potential market.

 

[TXR1S]

RIVN is up pretty big today. NACS announcement soon?

 

[scottf200]

Literally nothing in that statement says they'd replace CCS. EVGo's current Tesla plug solution is based on the CHAdeMO adapter and very limited in capability. If anything, those will go away in favor of full-power NACS cables alongside CCS. There's almost zero chance you'll see a third-party charge point operator deploy equipment with only NACS for probably the next decade. If charging already isn't profitable there'd be no reason for them to artificially decrease their potential market.

I don't think they have very many NACS (CHAdeMO undercovers) locations tho.

Didn't know if they had access to that much extra real estate at each location to add more. Tesla often plans for that.

Typically they have multiple CCS and a CHAdeMO (not NACS). Figure in the future it will be multiple NACS and few CCS as most cars (3/4+) will have NACS built in. Statistically/logically, they would provide charging for the corresponding ratio for best profits.

 

[zefram47]

I don't think they have very many NACS (CHAdeMO undercovers) locations tho.

Didn't know if they had access to that much extra real estate at each location to add more. Tesla often plans for that.

Typically they have multiple CCS and a CHAdeMO (not NACS). Figure in the future it will be multiple NACS and few CCS as most cars (3/4+) will have NACS built in. Statistically/logically, they would provide charging for the corresponding ratio for best profits.

You can put multiple cables on a single unit, much like a gas pump. The existing Tesla->CHAdeMO units aren't dedicated...it's kinda like the Magic Dock situation.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

I do hope Rivian joins the Tesla Superchargers. I've been driving Teslas since 2012 and the Superchargers are fabulous! I am waiting on a dual motor but will definitely cancel if Rivian states that they are not joining. And. of course if Rivian joins in, that will make me and a lot of people really happy! I've crossed the country too many times in a Tesla and I know how liberating the Superchargers are.

What would be a suitable solution for you?

Only the NACS port?

Would a CCS to NACS adapter work?

The issue with Rivian changing to NACS fully is they have a lot of vehicles on the road with CCS, and they have their RAN network built around CCS.

The other thing at play is all the NAVI funding is for CCS based chargers. Sure it doesn't exclude having other ports, but it has to have CCS ports.

So the only solution I see Rivian doing that will satisfy both their needs, and the needs of customers demanding Supercharger access is to work out a deal with Tesla to join the Supercharger network through the use of an adapter. The same adapter that existing Ford/GM EV owners will use.

 

[Gene]

What would be a suitable solution for you?

Only the NACS port?

Would a CCS to NACS adapter work?

The issue with Rivian changing to NACS fully is they have a lot of vehicles on the road with CCS, and they have their RAN network built around CCS.

The other thing at play is all the NAVI funding is for CCS based chargers. Sure it doesn't exclude having other ports, but it has to have CCS ports.

So the only solution I see Rivian doing that will satisfy both their needs, and the needs of customers demanding Supercharger access is to work out a deal with Tesla to join the Supercharger network through the use of an adapter. The same adapter that existing Ford/GM EV owners will use.

I'd say, since so few Rivians have been built so far and hopefully there are many more to come, just "rip the bandaid off" and start installing the NACS in the trucks ASAP. Same for the tiny number of existing Rivian chargers. The sooner they change over, the easier. CCS at this point, is likely to go the way of the Betamax. Also, NACS hardware on the vehicle side is much less expensive and more reliable.

 

[RoadRunner]

Stellantis is taking a hard look at NACS now as well...My guess is they announce they are switching over soon.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stellantis-says-evaluating-teslas-charging-182856704.html

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